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Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

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Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Also, the models aren't entirely freeform; i.e. engineers embed knowledge of how the world is structured into those networks. " In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6. "What are you doing?", asked Minsky. "I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-tac-toe", Sussman replied. "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky. "I do not want it to have an…

>the incident where the Tesla collided with a pedestrian pushing a bicycle in Arizona That was Uber's self driving car program. Notably, the SUV they were using has had pedestrian detecting auto-stopping for several years, though I'm sure it's not 100%

Sorry, Uber, you're right! Whoops!

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So pilots will get the distinction, but non-pilots think it means self-driving.

I don't think so. Most people are aware that autopilot exists for airplanes, and they are also aware that there are always human pilots on board the plane.

It doesn't really matter what you think. Studies have shown that a significant number of people believe that ADAS branded as "Autopilot" means that the driver does not need to pay attention.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#404
post #147

Recent and related: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28545010 - Sept 2021 (118 comments) Less recent and less related: Watch a Tesla Fail an Automatic Braking Test and Vaporize a Robot Pedestrian - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24588795 - Sept 2020 (111 comments)

Vaporize. What an objective and sensible term to describe something that I’m sure you are totally unbiased about…

That's just the title of the submitted article. If we'd seen it at the time, we would have vaporized it...but no one bats a hundred :)

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#405
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an i…

The mechanism by which those lessons were learned involved many years full of tragedy and many fatalities including many famous celebrities dying in those plane crashes. Obviously, we do not want to follow that same path, but at the moment that's exactly the path we're on. The US govt isn't going to do anything until there's a public outcry, and historically there won't be a public outcry until there's a bunch of fam…

> The US govt isn't going to do anything until ...

I think this attitude is defeatist and absolves us of doing anything. It's a democracy; things happen because citizens act. 'The US government isn't going to do anything' as long as citizens keep saying that to each other.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, the TSLAs with FSD will disable it in snow+rain, so I assume that even if TSLA achieves L4, it will be only under ideal conditions until they have enough data to resolve these edge cases.

> Right now, the TSLAs with FSD will disable it in snow+rain What about that instant before it figures out it's bad enough weather to shut itself off? What is the threshold?

It seems like currently the minute it detects rain it shuts it down. (wipers are automatic also)

On the other hand, there are a lot of videos of FSD Beta on youtube that show the car driving into the sun where it's almost impossible for a human to see, but the cameras detect all of it.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I’d have to say just stop using FSD underneath a monorail. I haven’t seen as much failures in suburbs

The guy in the video is intentionally stress testing the system by repeatedly driving in an area he knows is poorly handled. But it's totally fair IMO, this is a real road and while it confuses humans too (as evidenced by all the people here claiming that it's illegal to turn right here), FSD must handle it better than this.

Considering this data is probably fed back to Tesla, it's probably safe to say this guy is actually helping.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#408
Are we just ignoring the fact that Russ Mitchell is an infamous Elon hater and that the DMCA has nothing to do with the content of the video? The video was re-uploaded by a 3rd party and the original video owner makes a living off YouTube videos so rightfully asked YouTube to take it down.

Onto the ostensible issue of the car "almost hitting a pedestrian" ... This is a beta software that is equivalent to cruise control from a liability perspective. Its an advanced driving assistance feature. The driver must be ready to take over control at any moment as was the case here.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part that always bothered me most about AP on the highway was how willing it is to drive full speed into an obvious problem. Obvious for me, that is. Dense merging traffic, for example -- I can see the conflict coming, I can read the way people are driving on that on-ramp, and I take defensive action. My Tesla would just drive right into the center of that mess than then panic when things got crazy. I no longer h…

well, you don't just "trust" it, if you are smart enough you quickly learn the good and bad sides of it. When I use it (95% of time) I know what to expect and I have a habit of putting my foot on the accelerator pedal instead of break pedal for "phantom" braking which has gotten a lot better than let say in 2018. You also know the limits - if the lines look strange - no lines at all or if they are not perfect or if t…

> You also learn as a pro tip to let the car push its limits and let it do what it wants to do like doing something dangerous then realizing that it would correct itself after your "comfortable" zone.

That's literally "trusting it".

As a human, you are attempting to learn the situations under which the car operates safely. You could be very conservative and say "it never works". The big problem is that the kinds of errors that occur in these systems are very different from the kinds of errors that humans expect. Even designers of autonomous systems can be surprised by emergent behavior. You say you can quickly learn the good and bad sides of it, however, that's not true. How much reliability do we expect from a system that, when it fails, leads to sever injury or death? ASIL-D is something like one failure in 10^9 hours [1]. That's 100,000 years.

You do not have that much experience with your Tesla, sorry. In principle, you might drive every waking hour for 10 years, never witness an accident, and you still not have an argument that passes even the most basic scrutiny for safety for critical systems. It could make a fatal mistake in the 11th year and that would not be a big surprise.

No one has that much experience with the ASIL-D components of any car. That's why I we must rely on regulation and standardization to help keep us safe. Safety isn't just "well I tried it a bunch under these conditions and didn't get hurt". And that's why what Tesla's strategy is reckless.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_Safety_Integrity_Le...

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#410
post #77

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

On the one hand I applaud Tesla for being so open about what their system is thinking with their visualisations. That could be interpreted to show a deep belief in their system's capabilities. On the other hand, it's always terrified me how jittery any version of AutoPilot's perception of the world is. Would you let your car be driven by someone with zero object permanence, 10/20 vision and only a vague idea of the e…

> I applaud Tesla for being so open about what their system is thinking with their visualisations

How do you know that what is on the screen matches what the system is 'thinking'? What reason or obligation would Tesla have to engineer accurate visualizations for the real thing and show them to you (remember the definition of accuracy: correct, complete, consistent)? Would Tesla show its customers something that would make them uncomfortable or show Tesla in a bad light, or even question the excitement Tesla hopes to generate?

I think it's likely that the display is marketing, not engineering.

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