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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#591
post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, if they ever go back to Russia, they risk prosecution. Rather rough deal.

“Leave and never be able to visit your family for as long as the current regime lasts” is a tough call. People do do that, but the pain of remaining has to be very high to make the tradeoffs palatable.

Pavel Durov knows a bit of this I heard.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Apple’s reviewer has manually concluded that it actually is CSAM* There is no manual review of the image by Apple employees. What is viewed is a derivative image, which is scaled down and blurred. It would be trivial for someone to use legal pornographic images and put it through a NeuralHash collision generator, which upon viewing the scaled down derivative image, would look like CSAM.

If that’s what you’re worried about, then if people have physical control over your phone they could just upload CSAM to your FB or Google photos from it.

I said nothing about physical control. WhatsApp and other apps automatically download images that are sent to them. Scammers and those who commit fraud or phishing attempts don't have physical access to their victims electronic, yet they're able to get victims to download and run malicious code all of the time.

There's also the fact that iOS exploits are so plentiful that they're cheaper than Android exploits.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is that this sign on yard analogy is just not relevant to real world circumstance. Facebook and Twitter have outsized control over how I socialize with others. If every major cell phone provider chose to stop delivering any text with that article attached to it, would that be acceptable? What if they decided to unilaterally stop delivering any texts from the Trump campaign? Clearly there is a line to…

> The whole point is that this sign on yard analogy is just not relevant to real world circumstance. Facebook and Twitter have outsized control over how I socialize with others. So? They only have that kind of power over you because you chose to give it to them. If I have cool friends, and you decided to organize your social life around visiting my house to see them, it's not my problem if you don't have a place to s…

[deleted]

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terms of use are totally different - they allow you to sue a person if they use it againt the terms, and your ability to sue based on them is going to be very limited. Putting in the TOE of a car: " you are not allowed to drive kids in it" will not be enforceable. In this case the company retains direct control over your property, and changed what it does after you bought it and paid for it.

I really don’t understand why americans are so obsessed with “my property”. I guess it’s a cultural thing.

I am not american, and I dont understand this obsession of American companies making of retaining control of items they already don't down, because they sold them.

I think having these for-profit busybodies butting in how you can live your life is a great threat to invidividual liberty.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s what you’re worried about, then if people have physical control over your phone they could just upload CSAM to your FB or Google photos from it.

I said nothing about physical control. WhatsApp and other apps automatically download images that are sent to them. Scammers and those who commit fraud or phishing attempts don't have physical access to their victims electronic, yet they're able to get victims to download and run malicious code all of the time. There's also the fact that iOS exploits are so plentiful that they're cheaper than Android exploits.

Still, why not send actual CSAM then, so that they are actually caught? Getting them into review just causes them inconvenience. Remember, only the flagged images will be reviewed, and only they could ever be sent to law enforcement, so it wouldn't even reveal their private photos or anything like that.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#596

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

It's one thing to flinch immediately, another to let this stand. By now there has been enough time for Mountain View to lock any Russian IPs out of Play Store moderation and to reinstate the apps unilaterally, with a clear statement that no one below the C-suite will be able to undo the decision. Otherwise, the org chart is clearly inverted.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#597
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes Google pulling out instead of censoring search results and spying on users for the government made things better for people in China. Apple scan your photos. Tells you what apps you are allowed to install and charges you extra for all of that. Whatever type of person is left on the platform is more likely to be going through stockholm syndrome and wouldn't be in a situation to make a political statement.

> Yes Google pulling out instead of censoring search results and spying on users for the government made things better for people in China. Did it? In what way? Does Google not censor results in the United States at the behest of the US government? Does it not spy on users at the best of the US govt?

Does Google censor in the US the same way they were required to in China? No.

Google censor based on court rulings, user requests from Europe, national security certicates. Google follows the law where it operates which is why they stopped in China.

Google doesn't spy on behalf the government. The government monitors all traffic via under the sea cables and at all major backbone datacenters. The cellphone location beacon you carry around does.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#598
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a lot of evidence that Russia's elections are rigged? Like turnout percentages have ridiculous percentages of ratios that end in 0 and 5 - as do growth in turnout.

They are rigged, but not as fully as they were in e.g. Belarus. Russia is a giant country with 85 "states" and around ~100k polling stations, so the process is very complex and involves different voting and administrative cultures. In some of those states they are fully rigged, with 95% turnout and 98% votes for the ruling party, but in some the elections are surprisingly fair. In a lot of others they can be made fai…

To add to this: this elections are run independently in every region. The government's ability to rig them in one area does not affect the outcome in another.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Brin's $100B can arm a lot of Russians. $100B/$60k USD = 1.6 million soldiers feed, and armed for a year. If he is a patriotic Russia who he claims himself to be, he should do that instead.

Never seen that Brin stated he's patriot of Russia. Do you have any proofs? Besides, arm who? Arm us, Russians to do what? Destroy our own country like e.g. Ukraine did? So that western corporations destroy all the industry (suppress competition and create bigger market for western goods), destroy even agriculture (US and EU farmers would be happy to supply their food to a new market, keeping agriculture production i…

> It all already happened in ... Georgia

Hm, let's see

Russia: https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp

Georgia: https://tradingeconomics.com/georgia/gdp

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#600

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

I have an easier solution that doesn’t require making a false moral choice.

Give your customers the ability to install their own software or app stores on the hardware that they own and paid for, without requiring a monopolistic walled garden. Of course, companies like Apple would never do this because they are far too greedy.

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