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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#431

Post by chupasaurus »

baybal2 wrote: post #383
chupasaurus wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 1.5 times the Russian regular army, which could be tripled in a week with mobilization. Not gonna work.

It will, because the mobilisation will of course not work. Nobody want to die for Putin. That's why he switched to mercenaries in Ukraine, because use of regular troops regularly returning to Russia in bodybags was about to become the straw which would've broken camel's back.

Those mercenaries are in the first tier of reserves anyway and it wouldn't be their choice but army on mobilization.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#432

Post by sannysanoff »

baybal2 wrote: post #385
nzmsv wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you cherry-picked here. You are thinking about the Baltics and forgetting about places like Uzbekistan (now broke) and Kazakhstan (rich but authoritarian). And even if you say these are former republics rather than satellites, think of the mess that is Serbia. The fall of the USSR may have been overall a good thing and even inevitable, as with any huge disruption it was not an unequivocal good thing for every…

> huge disruption it was not an unequivocal good thing for every single person. I think even in the Central Asian North Korea — Uzbekistan, a person now lives more freely, and richer than the wealthiest USSR citizens did.

Have you ever googled, bro?

>> After the collapse of the USSR, economic reforms were not fully implemented in Uzbekistan, conditions for the development of medium and small businesses were not created, corruption took root, and unemployment increased. Many wonder: if it is better now than in the past, why have about two to five million Uzbek citizens left their country in search of work?

via bbs.com (!!!) https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2014/10/141015_uzb...

.. and where do you think they migrated to, from their country that is on its way to Middle Ages? To Putin's dark regime's Russia, nowhere else, working there as construction and road workers etc.

You've got a good chance to compare your reality with real reality, my friend.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#433

Post by andybak »

dannyr wrote: post #426
Aunche wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of moral framework that creates cancel culture. Pulling out from Russia will decrease many Russian's standard of living, but will have zero impact in stopping them from rigging elections. If everyone cuts trade for moral reasons, then there's no incentive for us not to point nukes at each other again.

"If I don't become complicit, somebody else will be. Might as well do it myself."

I haven't decided if I agree with the comment you're replying to, but this isn't a fair summary of it. Either engage with it or don't but posting a caricature doesn't exactly raise the level of debate around here.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#434

Post by m3kw9 »

oliwarner wrote: post #253
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

Casually suggesting that Apple should pull out from all authoritarian countries is both funny and naive

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#435

Post by prepend »

fsflover wrote: post #185
simonh wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Navalny and his supporters are not calling for foreign companies to all pull out of Russia. What makes you think you know better what is good for the Russian people and the opposition groups than Russians and the opposition groups themselves? How many of Russia's Apple employees think Apple is "participating in dictatorship" by employing them? How many Russian citizens, including the political opposition, do you…

The actual problem is not that Apple removed the app. It's that there is no other way to install the app if Apple removes it from their store.

I disagree. I think the problem is that Apple is choosing to support dictators by removing this app.

The ability to side load apps is a smokescreen because only 1% of people would use any alternate means.

So even if they had alternate app stores, Apple removing it from the main App Store is egregious.

Similar to how it’s terrible that Google removed it even though it’s available in alternate stores.

(Of course Apple should allow sideloading and other app stores)

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#436

Post by srg0 »

sfg wrote: post #352
srg0 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ordinary web sites are quickly blocked and are not accessible without a VPN. Some popular VPN providers are blocked too. The app, once installed, appears to be more resistant to state-level disruption. At least until law enforcement pays a visit to Moscow offices, and then magically Apple and Google side with Putin.

Why isn't it hard to block access to the back-end services that the app communicates with? If it doesn't require back-end services, then why is it more resilient than an offline PWA?

I do not know what technique this app used, but in practice apps are more resilient. It has been shown by Telegram which more or less successfully evaded blocking in Russia. I think it's a combination of lower-level network API, traffic obfuscation libraries, push notifications, and hosting some info on public services which cannot be blocked without affecting too many people. But it is just a guess.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#437

Post by asats »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #367
kurokikaze wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's voting for the candidate most likely to win against the main party's candidates. The app's purpose is to concentrate protest voters on one candidate without spreading them over all of them.

Isn't there a lot of evidence that Russia's elections are rigged? Like turnout percentages have ridiculous percentages of ratios that end in 0 and 5 - as do growth in turnout.

They are rigged, but not as fully as they were in e.g. Belarus.

Russia is a giant country with 85 "states" and around ~100k polling stations, so the process is very complex and involves different voting and administrative cultures. In some of those states they are fully rigged, with 95% turnout and 98% votes for the ruling party, but in some the elections are surprisingly fair. In a lot of others they can be made fair if any poll watchers are present. Overall the thinking is that they add themselves 10-15% additional votes across the country by straight up voter fraud.

The main way they rig the elections right now is by not allowing anyone who could win to participate and then throwing all of the state resources towards promoting their candidate. That's why consolidated voting for a single opposition candidate can work in this context.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#438

Post by michaelt »

a123b456c wrote: post #429
tablespoon wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. IMHO, cooperating with an authoritarian regime in this way should be illegal, sort of like a sanctions violation. Cook and Pachai should go to jail for this. That consequence might clarify their thinking a little.

Define "authoritarian regime"

Just because there are shades of grey, doesn’t mean we can’t tell black from white.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#439

Post by [deleted] »

a123b456c wrote: post #429
tablespoon wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. IMHO, cooperating with an authoritarian regime in this way should be illegal, sort of like a sanctions violation. Cook and Pachai should go to jail for this. That consequence might clarify their thinking a little.

Define "authoritarian regime"

[deleted]

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#440

Post by sershe »

ansible wrote: post #397
jhgb wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not from Scandinavia and the vast majority of US politicians look like interchangeable parts to me as well.

> I'm not from Scandinavia and the vast majority of US politicians look like interchangeable parts to me as well. USA citizen. What's hilarious is that 10 years ago, I would have readily agreed with you. Both parties were too deeply beholden to special interests and corporate interests. There were some policy differences, but not that much, really. In the last five years, however, one party has gone completely batshi…

The way I see it, one party has gone dumb, and the other party is obviously going evil (I am from Russia so you can guess what I think of leftism). The question is whether you prefer your government dumb or evil; I think dumb is... the lesser of two evils.

But I can agree on the timing aspect, I'd vote for Obama OR Romney over literally any politician prominent in 2021.

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