Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin • Hacker News Board

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#421

Post by pigeonhole123 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

travisgriggs wrote: post #419

oliwarner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

Where does that stop though? I agree with you, but I don’t see how the basic observe-eval-withdraw loop ever terminates. Or put from a flip side… Building apps in highly democratic Norway just for Norwegians to use because they’re the best democracy (for example) doesn’t make enough money to feed my family. So why do anything at all?

The fact that you have to draw the line somewhere is not an argument for not drawing a line somewhere.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#422

Post by jjulius » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #4

Apple’s acquiescence to the Russian government’s demand to remove this app was predicted when it first came to light. Exactly at the same time as Apple was assuring world+dog that it would never acquiesce to governmental pressure to extend and expand the scope of its CSAM scanning tool on user’s devices.

Thank you for this. I had a number of HN users insinuate that I was wrong to warn that Apple could expand beyond CSAM scanning and begin scanning for other material. People seemed to take a very firm stance that no, that could never ever ever happen and I'm wrong to even suggest the possibility.

This incident is more than enough for me to remain concerned that that will happen.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#423

Post by racnid » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

QuarterReptile wrote: post #250

throw_m239339 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pull out of the countries then. Then why Apple hasn't pulled out of China? Like 2 decades ago? China was always a brutal dictatorship. Why would they pull out of anything? These company profit from bloody dictatorships, like the rest of the western economy. But somehow when it's about Russia it's a problem? The hypocrisy in the west must stop. The west and it's industry never stood for freedom abroad since it decid…

>Tell that to Apple in China, a country that is literally using slave workforce from concentration camps. Source?

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/departme...

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#424

Post by Aunche » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

oliwarner wrote: post #253

viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

This is the kind of moral framework that creates cancel culture. Pulling out from Russia will decrease many Russian's standard of living, but will have zero impact in stopping them from rigging elections. If everyone cuts trade for moral reasons, then there's no incentive for us not to point nukes at each other again.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#425

Post by sakopov » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

We're in a pandemic of cowardness.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#426

Post by dannyr » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #424

oliwarner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

This is the kind of moral framework that creates cancel culture. Pulling out from Russia will decrease many Russian's standard of living, but will have zero impact in stopping them from rigging elections. If everyone cuts trade for moral reasons, then there's no incentive for us not to point nukes at each other again.

"If I don't become complicit, somebody else will be. Might as well do it myself."

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#427

Post by kahrl » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

latexr wrote: post #266

From Tim Cook’s twitter bio[1]: > “Life's most persistent and urgent question is, 'What are you doing for others?'” - MLK Considering this, HKmap.live[2], and Telegram[3], he seems to be mighty confused about who “others” refers to in that quote. [1]: https://twitter.com/tim_cook [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKmap.live [3]: https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-telegram-belarus/

oth·er /ˈəT͟Hər/ pronoun

1. a shareholder or investor

2. a government entity whose favor you are economically dependent on.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#428

Post by creaturemachine » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

depressedpanda wrote: post #358

judge2020 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They work just fine on iOS. Stadia does PWA as well.

No they don't work fine. The option to install a PWA as an app is quite hidden, compared to Chrome. They refuse to implement push notifications. In general, Safari is dragging their feet in supporting any web standards that would allow PWAs to compete with apps installed from the App store, while at the same time being the only browser allowed on iOS.

The irony is so thick. Remember iPhone 1.0 was meant to use web apps exclusively.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#429

Post by a123b456c » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #408

oliwarner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

> If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. IMHO, cooperating with an authoritarian regime in this way should be illegal, sort of like a sanctions violation. Cook and Pachai should go to jail for this. That consequence might clarify their thinking a little.

Define "authoritarian regime"

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#430

Post by baybal2 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

anticodon wrote: post #411

baybal2 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides, arm who? Arm us, Russians to do what? Destroy our own country like e.g. Ukraine did? Ukraine is by no means "destroyed," it is reinvigorated, it's renewed. It went from a post-soviet satrapy into the modern world. I want Russia to follow its path. > I really hope that our people are not stupid to fall into this trap. Are you perhaps a Putinist?

Ukraine is by no means "destroyed," it is reinvigorated, it's renewed. In all areas of life, it's position severly declined since 1991 and especially after coup of 2014. Population is rapidly declining. Industry is destroyed. Shipbuilding, aviation construction is dead. As almost all other industry areas. Corruption is all time high (even EU leaders openly say this). What is reinvigorated, renewed? The next step is s…

>> Are you perhaps a Putinist?

> I'm and I don't see anything wrong with it. He saved Russia from the eventual collapse where it was led by Gorbachev, Yeltsin and their western puppeteers. I'm very grateful to him for that.

This is so wrong. Putinism is a absurd, pernicious ideology. Your ideological upbringing been bad.

To call a mafia-state, a freedom is delusional. It's like slaves fighting for the right to be enslaved.