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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#411

Post by anticodon »

baybal2 wrote: post #401
anticodon wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never seen that Brin stated he's patriot of Russia. Do you have any proofs? Besides, arm who? Arm us, Russians to do what? Destroy our own country like e.g. Ukraine did? So that western corporations destroy all the industry (suppress competition and create bigger market for western goods), destroy even agriculture (US and EU farmers would be happy to supply their food to a new market, keeping agriculture production i…

> Besides, arm who? Arm us, Russians to do what? Destroy our own country like e.g. Ukraine did? Ukraine is by no means "destroyed," it is reinvigorated, it's renewed. It went from a post-soviet satrapy into the modern world. I want Russia to follow its path. > I really hope that our people are not stupid to fall into this trap. Are you perhaps a Putinist?

Ukraine is by no means "destroyed," it is reinvigorated, it's renewed.

In all areas of life, it's position severly declined since 1991 and especially after coup of 2014.

Population is rapidly declining.

Industry is destroyed. Shipbuilding, aviation construction is dead. As almost all other industry areas.

Corruption is all time high (even EU leaders openly say this).

What is reinvigorated, renewed? The next step is selling lumber and even the earth itself to the West. Both options are already discussed (maybe even approved already, I don't really follow news from Ukraine).

Are you perhaps a Putinist?

I'm and I don't see anything wrong with it. He saved Russia from the eventual collapse where it was led by Gorbachev, Yeltsin and their western puppeteers. I'm very grateful to him for that.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#412

Post by leesalminen »

iakov wrote: post #405
leesalminen wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every cloud service that holds your photos in a non-e2ee way (read: Google, FB, et. Al.) scans your photos. They’re all afraid of the .gov accusing them of holding illegal content.

This again. None of them do that on my device, that I paid with my money. No cloud service wastes my CPU cycles and batteries to report me to authorities. It's apples to oranges, sorry for the pun. Please stop comparing what Google, MS and Dropbox do to what Apple planned to do.

I can relate to that, for sure. I also dislike the idea of having my personal property used to spy on me. The battery impact, the potentially degraded performance, and the overall creep factor. I dislike it all.

However, that was not what the parent stated. They said "Apple scan your photos.", to which I replied everyone else does as well. Because they do.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#414

Post by easton »

davedx wrote: post #158
Closi wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very sad when not even the massively rich will bother to do the right thing. The issue is Google and Apple isn't owned by one massively rich person. They are owned by tens of thousands of shareholders, many extremely wealthy but most small, including both individual investors but also pension funds and hedge funds, and the CEO & Board are legally obligated to act in their fiduciary interest.

> legally obligated to act in their fiduciary interest. Can you provide a citation of which law requires this?

It is probably a bundle of all three, but "duty of good faith" fits the best here.

"The duty to act in good faith is an obligation not only to make decisions free from self-interest, but also free of any interest that diverts the control persons from acting in the best interest of the company."

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary#Fiduciary_duties_und...)

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#416

Post by defaultname »

np- wrote: post #248
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

PWAs are a market failure [1], and the deployment/utilization of them approximates 0%, including on Android where, the many comments tell us, it's a high power panacea.

[1] - Though it is astonishing how well the cloud gaming options work as PWAs. The one place where they've made any headway.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#417

Post by chronofar »

rattray wrote: post #388
chronofar wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping employees out of a country due to hostile government behavior is actually the simpler world.

If you're starting from zero, sure. Moving all employees in Russia to another country (and/or firing/replacing them) sounds like quite a major headache to me.

Sure on a 6-12 month timescale. Beyond that it seems much easier. This is true of any infrastructure decision, they generally require work in the short term but are taken on to relieve pain and facilitate the ongoing future.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#418

Post by [deleted] »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

[deleted]

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#419

Post by travisgriggs »

oliwarner wrote: post #253
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

Where does that stop though? I agree with you, but I don’t see how the basic observe-eval-withdraw loop ever terminates.

Or put from a flip side… Building apps in highly democratic Norway just for Norwegians to use because they’re the best democracy (for example) doesn’t make enough money to feed my family. So why do anything at all?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#420

Post by rattray »

chronofar wrote: post #417
rattray wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're starting from zero, sure. Moving all employees in Russia to another country (and/or firing/replacing them) sounds like quite a major headache to me.

Sure on a 6-12 month timescale. Beyond that it seems much easier. This is true of any infrastructure decision, they generally require work in the short term but are taken on to relieve pain and facilitate the ongoing future.

I definitely hope that this is how Google and Apple respond to Russia's actions here. But I can't claim to know the difficulties they would face on a 12+mo timescale.
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