Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#521

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

dgfitz wrote: post #515

amrocha wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war was a direct response to 9/11, they're directly related, just like vaccines and mandates are a direct response to COVID. The country was ripped in two back then two, you just didn't hear about it as much. I was wrong when I said the media disagrees with you though. Maybe the difference is that the anti-vax side has managed to organize through the internet and has gotten a lot more coverage, so they look bigge…

> The war was a direct response to 9/11, they're directly related, just like vaccines and mandates are a direct response to COVID. The country was ripped in two back then two, you just didn't hear about it as much. I understand the point you’re trying to make, but I still disagree. I was in high school when 9/11 happened, I remember it well. There was a period of time, I will admit it was on the order of 48-96 hours,…

You talk about an event that occurred over 12 hours uniting the country for a business week, and wonder why a disease that had been politicized and downplayed in contradiction to the science and what we were seeing in other countries for months before we saw significant numbers of infections in the US did not generate the same effect?

Of course it didn't. I don't understand why you think it ever had the chance to.

>I’m sure you remember Harris and Biden saying they wouldn’t get a vaccine when Trump was president. It’s political all the way down.

I remember their comments. I also remember the rest of the statements they made and the context around them. And neither of them said they wouldn't get a vaccine while Trump was president - they said that they wouldn't get a vaccine if Trump was the only one saying to get it, and experts like Fauci weren't.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-pos...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#522

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 3:09 AM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #219

rattlesnakedave wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what else you would call someone with such a skewed risk assessment that they think taking a vaccine that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective, provided free of charge, isn’t worth their time. Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19. We have a much better idea with the vaccines. Even more, studies suggest that unvaccinate…

>that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective, There are no long term studies so calling it incredibly safe is misleading at best. What happens if some issues start cropping up in 5 or 10 years. >Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19. So it could be longer than vaccines? Some places are already pushing for boosters since vaccine effica…

>There are no long term studies so calling it incredibly safe is misleading at best. What happens if some issues start cropping up in 5 or 10 years.

Do you think this is a thing we do in general before starting to produce and distribute vaccines? If you are under that impression, I must inform you, it is not the case. We do not spend a decade watching for vaccine side effects before we begin vaccinating people, even when the situation is "normal" and not the same as COVID.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#523

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 3:19 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #218

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant Friend’s mother visiting from Jamaica. People in her country are dying while they wait for first shots. The voluntarily unvaccinated in America are idiots. The author’s point is there are billions of unvoluntarily unvaccinated around the world to whom these doses could go.

Calling the unvaccinated idiots is about as effective as calling the obese, alcoholics, people who don’t take their medication, etc, idiots. Apparently we have sympathy for people who fail to make good health choices except for the unvaccinated. Not effective at all.

>Calling the unvaccinated idiots is about as effective as calling the obese, alcoholics, people who don’t take their medication, etc, idiots.

I mean, we should. And I say that as someone who is overweight and drinks more than I should. (Hm. Are they connected?!)

I'm fully aware that one of the most significant changes I can make to reduce my risk profile for all cause mortality is dropping weight, and have at times done so, and at times slipped back into poor eating and exercise habits. I'm in the middle one of the trends to improve it, but who knows if it will stick this time.

And yep, I'm stupid for not sticking to it. Or lacking in willpower. Or some combination of things that you would be fully justified in ascribing some sort of negative label to.

But if I could take a shot that makes me significantly less likely to die from my love of craft beer and cooking delicious, delicious, high calorie meals full of carbs and fat and not enough veggies, I sure would. If I could take a shot that made my body recover from doing strength training now in my 30s like it did back when I was in my early 20s, and less likely to have minor injuries, or even more likely to get me to return to the habit after recuperating from those injuries instead of staring wistfully at my garage door and thinking "man I really should get back to lifting weights", I would definitely do that.

I know I'm an idiot for not taking enough control over my own life to take care of some of the single largest health concerns. But I'd be an even bigger idiot if there was something as simple as a two or three dose vaccine regimen available to take care of those risks that I ignored.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#524

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 3:22 AM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #185

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was there too. I was also in Boise, and Twin Falls, ID. I went to no less than 20 doctors or nurses in the space of 2 weeks Not one doctor mentioned anything about quitting or being short-staffed.

20 doctors/nurses in 2 weeks? I hope you were taking a survey or selling medical equipment, and you were not ill.

It did seem crazy at the time.

But not ill. Thanks for your concern.

One of the doctors was an ophthalmologist. Did the full vision test while at it. I was not driving - mostly doing uber to get around.

Made the mistake accepting the eye drops they often do for vision testing.

My phone was a complete blur after the drops.

Yes...I had a few more appts that day.

Trying to get around or even something as basic as calling was hard. Now imagine having to fill out online forms on mobile. Nightmare

In quiet desperation, i tried to turn on the accessibility settings on my android.

The phone suddenly started parroting loudly YOU ARE NOW USING ACCESSIBILITY SETTINGS PLEASE CONFIRM in the middle of a quiet waiting room.

The 3 hours that followed where the most vulnerable and humbling of my life.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#525

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #411

spywaregorilla wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I roll a six sided die. You roll a 20 sided die. We both get a 4. I guess they're the same.

Except the 6 and 20 numbers are ones you just made up to support your position and make yourself feel warm inside but this fact just makes your entire statement meaningless and at the center of your grin at your own wit is an empty, hollow nothing.

His point was that two processes can result in the same outcome when dependent on more factors than just the quality of the process. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't use the better process, just that it does not guarantee a better outcome. Only a better chance of a better outcome.

Though, based on the actual data we have, his numbers aren't bad for cases, and would need to be shifted to a dice with a lot more sides than a d20 for hospitalizations and deaths.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90675524/delta-variant-vaccinate...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#526

Post by cthalupa » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #393

zamalek wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it to protect the vaccinated? Unfortunately, yes. The unvaccinated are a fertile ground for strains to develop. Protecting the unvaccinated is in your own best interest. We're going to need new vaccines when the the virus evolves in the unvaccinated, but the vaccinated can delay that eventuality.

Do you know about ADE? People with a vaccine that doesn’t stop infection may have a higher chance and time to help develop mutations in order for it to survive. It was extremely dangerous to push an imperfect vaccine, and because we know the current ones do not stop infection, transmission, or lower the viral load, that might be what has happened. IDK, not an epidemiologist. https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vacc…

Your own link says that there is zero evidence of ADE being an issue with CV19 and our vaccines.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#527

Post by gitanovic » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 4:59 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #476

spookthesunset wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a good chunk of society that absolutely refuses to move on.

Yea, They can easily end this by just getting the jab, but choose not to. I'm starting to think the anti-mask, anti-vax crowd actually loves COVID and stay-at-home and all these restrictions. With COVID, these people imagine themselves as powerful freedom fighters, knowers of The Truth, battling the authoritarian government, standing lone against evil, occasionally martyrs for the cause--just like Braveheart! Without…

mhh you might be right

some people need a villain to justify the evil in the world

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#528

Post by gitanovic » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

mythrwy wrote: post #376

gitanovic wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was going to answer to say exactly this. The more vaccinated, the merrier the world with less variants

What if it works the opposite though? Simple evolutionary biology suggests resistance develops from roadblocks or mechanisms to stifle. We see it all the time in antibiotic resistance, resistance of insects to pesticides used in crops, all kinds of areas. I don't see a reason this case would be different.

because you are giving the virus less chances to replicate and therefore less chances at mutation

I might be wrong, but it seems obvious to me that this should reduce variants

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#529

Post by gitanovic » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 5:09 AM UTC

Tepix wrote: post #74

skrebbel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, for a selfish western pitch: reduce the chance that bad new variants develop.

You are not protected againts new mutations just because they originate from another place in the world. You are not reducing the chances for new mutations. Keeping the vaccine to yourself will not help you.

I think he is stating the exact opposite: to actually give doses to those countries without, exactly for this reason

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#530

Post by gls2ro » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 5:40 AM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #470

supercheetah wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors and nurses don't get built in a year.

That seems like such an excuse. A year and a half is plenty of time to get creative. Pull people out of retirement. Let nursing students do more. Pay truckloads of money to all of them. I dunno. Figure it out. These folks are supposed to be the “experts”… what have they been doing this whole time? Saying “no it cannot be done” is just not a valid excuse.

I am not a doctor so I cannot judge if “no it cannot be done” is valid or not.

But I think experts are allowed and expected to say “no it cannot be done” when something truly cannot be done. Experts are not superheroes and unlike superhero movies (just as example) there are matters that we cannot solve in a timely matter no matter how many experts we throw in the ring.