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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#461

Post by justwanttolearn »

throwawayboise wrote: post #366
mrrv wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unvaccinated are putting others at risk, including kids. I can't say the same about the obese or people who don't take their medication.

Obese people take up health care resources that could go to keeping kids healthier at lower cost or making those resources more available to kids in an emergency.

asides from obese people / poor lifestyle choice people taking up health care resources, not only from Covid but they're also taking up resources from all other ailments that comes up BECAUSE they're obese. As well the culture today encourages plus size, like it's asking to overwhelm the healthcare system

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#462

Post by spookthesunset »

Frondo wrote: post #426
samtheprogram wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are people dying because the hospitals are too full of unvaccinated patients dying of COVID-19?

In Southern Oregon, people with cancer or who are at risk of heart attack or stroke are being made to wait for care, because the hospitals are filled with unvaccinated COVID-19 patients: https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/absolutely-he... In another rural region (Idaho, maybe?) there was just that, someone who had some treatable condition who was unable to be seen for all the unvaccinated COVID patients,…

I mean the government and these private hospitals had a year and a half to build capacity. Last I checked building capacity was supposed to be the rationale for the whole “flatten the curve” thing back in March of 2020.

Why are hospitals “full” when they had all this time? Why is society supposed to be punished for a failure of leadership to do what they said?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#463

Post by spookthesunset »

gitanovic wrote: post #272
tomerv wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it to protect the vaccinated? This makes no sense, as the risk to the vaccinated well below the range we have accepted for decades. What is the acceptable range? Older people are still dying from Covid even after 2 shots. If a third shot can improve someone's protection from death due to Covid, say from 70% to 90% [1], that sounds like a good reason to take that shot. The comparison between someone in Israel tak…

As long as they don't impose to me (40 y.o.) to catch a plane... fine with me I am getting very wary of the whole situation. "As soon as we get a vaccine we are good". Now we have the bloody thing, I got injected with it hoping to get back to normal: "We need a booster shot" I was always pretty rational about it, but this is becoming a farce

There is a good chunk of society that absolutely refuses to move on.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#464

Post by spookthesunset »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #325
mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

It's to flatten the curve. Approx 10% of vaccinated still require oxygen and other medical measures. And with hospitals currently at full capacity, boosters are a short-term way to keep the hospitalization numbers low until kids can get vaccinated and every one else has had their chance before we fully open everything up once and for all.

We’ve been flattening the curve for a year and a half. They had ample time to build capacity. Why is it not built?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#465

Post by supercheetah »

spookthesunset wrote: post #462
Frondo wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Southern Oregon, people with cancer or who are at risk of heart attack or stroke are being made to wait for care, because the hospitals are filled with unvaccinated COVID-19 patients: https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/absolutely-he... In another rural region (Idaho, maybe?) there was just that, someone who had some treatable condition who was unable to be seen for all the unvaccinated COVID patients,…

I mean the government and these private hospitals had a year and a half to build capacity. Last I checked building capacity was supposed to be the rationale for the whole “flatten the curve” thing back in March of 2020. Why are hospitals “full” when they had all this time? Why is society supposed to be punished for a failure of leadership to do what they said?

Doctors and nurses don't get built in a year.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#466

Post by AzzieElbab »

542354234235 wrote: post #436
AzzieElbab wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.h... looking at the map above tells me people in rich western countries are dying from covid at 2-8x rates of people in the developing countries with some exceptions(Brazil, Peru, Mexico). How on earth do you make any morality based policy calls based on this data?

>How on earth do you make any morality based policy calls based on this data? Well, you make those calls by looking more deeply into data than a country level map. In the US, the majority of states are at or near the point where vaccine supply is higher than demand. [1] The people that wanted vaccines got vaccines and the majority of the unvaccinated are that way by choice. We also know that over 98% of covid hospita…

Why would you assume that vaccine hesitancy is uniquely American and immutable phenomena? Why would you assume 2 shots of vaccine is enough for life when a new variant pops up every month? As an official, how would you pick a country to send vaccines to when most of the world has lower infections and death rates? How would you ration your vaccines when FDA may authorize them for younger kids any day? What about vaccine mandates? Those are supposed to up the demand, right?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#467

Post by HWR_14 »

est31 wrote: post #446
HWR_14 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government, to secure the doses, committed to indemnify the suppliers if anything went wrong and not to transfer the doses to any country that would not (or in some cases, they had to commit to not transferring the doses at all). Most countries are refusing to indemnify the companies. So the US government would be in breach of contract and could be sued for sending the doses overseas.

Oh I see, didn't know that. Thanks for explaining! That being said, the government could also give the doses back to the manufacturers for a small fee who could then sell it abroad themselves, because right now it seems to me that their production capacities are maxed out and they produce less than they could sell.

Oh yes. Or renegotiate the contracts. And, IIRC, Biden got around that in the case of Mexico by "loaning" them the doses against their preorder that Pfizer couldn't fill yet.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#468

Post by junon »

Steltek wrote: post #377
merrywhether wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a serious disconnect between public health experts and the general public, and the experts have continued to not learn that lesson over the last year plus. It’s mind-boggling. Earlier in the summer, we lifted mask mandates “because the vaccines were preventing disease”, and regardless of the technical facts behind that decision, the perception was reality for the general public. Now they are trying to walk th…

The CDC seems dangerously close to a no-win scenario. Present truth and facts backing policy: Not managing public perception correctly. Tell public what needs to be done but omit details: Conserve N95's with "masks don't work" all over again.

This. Even here in Germany it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. It's entirely polarized.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#469

Post by junon »

odessacubbage wrote: post #238
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant Friend’s mother visiting from Jamaica. People in her country are dying while they wait for first shots. The voluntarily unvaccinated in America are idiots. The author’s point is there are billions of unvoluntarily unvaccinated around the world to whom these doses could go.

please give '''my''' shot to a high risk person in jamaica or iran or brazil. i don't need it, they do.

> i don't need it

Yes. You do. Even if you're asymptomatic, the virus will still mutate with a small chance of becoming another variant, and if you're unvaccinated in such a case, that means you'll spread it to others.

By not being vaccinated, you run the risk of spreading a variant around that is a "breakthrough variant" - a mutation of the disease that is hardened against a particular vaccine brand.

Thus, you will be contributing to healthy people getting sick despite being properly vaccinated.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#470

Post by spookthesunset »

supercheetah wrote: post #465
spookthesunset wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the government and these private hospitals had a year and a half to build capacity. Last I checked building capacity was supposed to be the rationale for the whole “flatten the curve” thing back in March of 2020. Why are hospitals “full” when they had all this time? Why is society supposed to be punished for a failure of leadership to do what they said?

Doctors and nurses don't get built in a year.

That seems like such an excuse. A year and a half is plenty of time to get creative. Pull people out of retirement. Let nursing students do more. Pay truckloads of money to all of them. I dunno. Figure it out. These folks are supposed to be the “experts”… what have they been doing this whole time?

Saying “no it cannot be done” is just not a valid excuse.

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