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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#471

Post by genewitch »

HWR_14 wrote: post #432
billycorben2 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 28. A programmer with a sedentary lifestyle. I was covid positive last October and kicked it fine (verified with a test). I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?). Why should I get vaccinated?

People get sick with COVID multiple times, and natural immunity is more hit-or-miss with regards to protection against variants. Reinfections are also frequently nastier than the first infection. It also costs absolutely nothing and at worst will act as an additional safety that makes you feel uncomfortable for a few days. So why not get vaccinated?

Why would a reinfection be worse? How would the spike proteins in the pfizer, moderna, and J&J shots work at all if that was the case?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#472

Post by dang »

HWR_14 wrote: post #372
beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

Good thing the only thing that matters is death, not any other issue. Good thing children never transmit viruses to adults. Good thing reservoirs of disease never allow for novel mutations. Good thing your source[1] didn't do something fundamentally dishonest like compare projections in one case to actual results in the other. Good thing your source[1] didn't do something fundamentally dishonest like compare one rate…

Please don't argue in the flamewar style on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. It is exactly what we're trying to avoid here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#473

Post by sixothree »

nsxwolf wrote: post #370
isolli wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not wrong in itself, your comment epitomizes everything that has been wrong with our public health response. Trying to manipulate populations into a desired behavior by lying to them is, as you point out, counterproductive in the long run.

I believe we'd see more people choose to be vaccinated if we'd: * Stop lying * Stop threatening * Stop mocking people when they die

> Stop mocking people when they die

Yeah. That's not going to happen. The sentiment has turned against the unvaccinated dying from a preventable disease in a very big way.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#474

Post by GuB-42 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #172
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

> Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we…

> We don't know they are safe for children under 12. Pediatrics is a profession precisely because "children are not just small adults". Something that is safe for adults isn't automatically safe for children.

True, and the obvious example is that kids don't die of covid, or so little that it is hard to make statistics. For just that reason, vaccines have to be incredibly safe (basically zero risk) for the risk/benefit to be acceptable.

If it wasn't for the risk of transmission to adults there would be no reason for vaccinating kids.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#475

Post by [deleted] »

HWR_14 wrote: post #372
beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

Good thing the only thing that matters is death, not any other issue. Good thing children never transmit viruses to adults. Good thing reservoirs of disease never allow for novel mutations. Good thing your source[1] didn't do something fundamentally dishonest like compare projections in one case to actual results in the other. Good thing your source[1] didn't do something fundamentally dishonest like compare one rate…

[deleted]

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#476

Post by encryptluks2 »

HWR_14 wrote: post #423
oppositelock wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a child under 12, and while everyone in my household over 12 is vaccinated, I'm not sure if the vaccine has any point for him. If you look at CDC stats, today there are only 412 reported covid19 deaths in the 0-17 age group, 138 in the 0-4 group, meaning 274 in the 4-17 group out of 670,000. Furthermore, kids rarely need treatment, so most infections go undiagnosed. While I have no objection to a vaccine, an…

A large number of the breakthrough cases I'm (personally) aware of are coming from unvaccinated kids to their parents. I would definitely vaccinate your child once it's approved for under 12 - for your whole family's sake. Then tell them they're doing it to protect their family and let them feel like a brave hero.

Why wouldn't you just have the vulnerable adults get vaccinated? At what point will done of these people just start vaccinating in the womb or just treat it like circumcision? Circumcision is not needed but might as well just poke babies with needles immediately after their born to make sure we traumatize them as much as possible.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#477

Post by prh8 »

jowday wrote: post #376
bedhead wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. We have been so unbelievably myopic with COVID it truly hurts my head. Even today, ask someone who's COVID-obsessed, "What exactly is your longer-term plan here?" and watch as their mind breaks down. Too many people have completely stopped thinking about what they're trying to achieve and how they're going to do it. Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and…

>Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and it's freakin disastrous. The pandemic is largely over culturally and mentally for pretty much all of the country - I'm in the middle of San Francisco and the only real remaining enforced anti-COVID measures are flashing your vaccine card before going into bars, masks inside of gyms, and masking and demasking when you ent…

It is not even remotely close to being over in the US. After visiting SF for a week this month, I don't even know how someone in that bubble could think that, since it's clearly not over there either. It's much different and less problematic in SF than many other parts of the country, but absolutely not over there or anywhere else.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#478

Post by jameshart »

timr wrote: post #439
lame-robot-hoax wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is comparing myocarditis to hospitalizations. Where is the comparison between myocarditis induced by vaccination vs natural infection? [0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v... “Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to dev…

This is out of date and incorrect. The latest data shows that the risk of myocarditis in children after two doses vastly exceeds the risk of myocarditis posed by the virus: https://twitter.com/ID_ethics/status/1437876328640876544 Better breakdowns by age and gender show a risk of myocarditis after two doses as high as 1 in 3000: https://twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH/status/1437067899089219589 This number has been steadily…

That report doesn’t appear to talk about case rates of myocarditis due to COVID at all. It compares COVID hospitalization rates to vaccine-related myocarditis case rates. Is it your assumption that all myocarditis cases are as serious as a COVID hospitalization?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#479

Post by sneakymichael »

wpietri wrote: post #330
isolli wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not wrong in itself, your comment epitomizes everything that has been wrong with our public health response. Trying to manipulate populations into a desired behavior by lying to them is, as you point out, counterproductive in the long run.

I think there's a big difference between lying and saying "most people want very simple answers, so let's boil all of this down to something that fits in a 30-second PSA". And honestly, 30-seconds is pretty long these days in terms of attention span. I agree they should also have more information at various levels so people who want to know more can dig in. But people don't make most choices on anything like a purely…

What is 'VMT'?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#480

Post by tommymachine »

jowday wrote: post #292
isolli wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not wrong in itself, your comment epitomizes everything that has been wrong with our public health response. Trying to manipulate populations into a desired behavior by lying to them is, as you point out, counterproductive in the long run.

I wish I could say that if authorities hadn't lied about, say, masks or this stuff with natural immunity, things would gone a lot better and people would have behaved much more rationally about COVID, but I don't think that's true. I've got family in a small town in the south - the countermeasures they took against COVID basically amounted to Wal-Mart closing for a weekend in March. Most of the people there had made…

And that whole side of your family is dead, right?
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