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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#401

Post by robocat »

Someone1234 wrote: post #52

The answers aren't medical, they're pragmatic. - COVID-19 Antibody Tests cost more than the vaccine (roughly $40 Vs. $16/dose). - We lack the quantity of Antibody Tests we'd need. - We'd need to set up additional systems and processes to accommodate the testing and proof (which, again, is a cost). The implicit assumption that often go along with these natural immunity proponents is that the vaccine is unsafe. Since i…

At least let people pay to get the Antibody Test, and if positive then they get a one year vaccine holiday.

There is little point getting knickers twisted over small percentage wins when a large population (children) are unvaccinated.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#402

Post by gizmondo »

outworlder wrote: post #345
oppositelock wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I posted above about being on the fence about vaccinating my kid, I was in a similar case as you. I'm in my late 40's, and I came down with covid early in the pandemic, before general availability of PCR tests, but I did manage to get an antibody test, and I was positive. I did get vaccinated because the vaccine reinforces antibodies which are correlated with fewer complications upon subsequent infection. There…

> the randomized nature of our immune response can lead to some less desirable antibodies being present Exactly! The point of many COVID vaccines is to teach the immune system to destroy a very specific and very important protein, which is the spike protein. Without that the virus can't enter cells. It's not present in our own body. We have no idea what kind of immune response any given person might get with an actua…

Your last paragraph makes little sense. We have no idea what kind of immune response any given person might get with a vaccine (any vaccine) either. What kind of test this is? And infections after covid vaccines are sadly also a thing.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#403

Post by simonh »

mattparcens wrote: post #307
wpietri wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Serology is a thing, sure. But two points: Getting a serum test rather than getting the vaccine is not going to be cheaper, easier, or better studied. We are not constrained on vaccine supply. So the practical advantage of allowing a totally different pathway is not obvious. Creating another pathway adds a lot of cognitive load and confusion. The bar bou…

Cognitive load does not justify imposing potentially involuntary medical treatments on people, particularly not onto people for whom the benefit is likely of very little marginal value. The cognitive load could be built into the "vaccine card" anyway - I have a driver's license with a couple of extra checkboxes showing that I need corrective lenses and am authorized to drive a motorcycle, but most people need only be…

Nobody has a full system of vaccination status cards and databases. There are just too many people who will avoid vaccination at the slightest excuse. We're in a war and every day of delay costs thousands, or tens of thousands of lives.

We need simple rules that we can apply on a massive scale quickly. The US is a country where more than half of people can't work out if a 1/3 pound burger is bigger or smaller than a 1/4 pound burger.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#404

Post by Clubber »

sk2020 wrote: post #313
lghh wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.

What is the baseline utilization of ICU space? I’m also curious what happened to those heroic efforts of retrofitting parking garages into field-expedient hospitals. Oh, and the notorious “gunshot victims are being left to die because of all the covid, bros!” misinformation that respectable journalists printed without any effort to check the facts.

>that respectable journalists printed without any effort to check the facts.

Journalists from the same publication (Rolling Stone) were responsible for the whole fabricated "A Rape On Campus" article as well. I would not give them the respectable journalist moniker anymore except in jest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#405

Post by tshaddox »

vibrato2 wrote: post #239
lghh wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.

Did you miss the data point that boys are 6x more likely to be affected from the therapy than the illness?

That "data point" is that that group is 6x more likely to be affected by myocarditis after receiving a vaccine than to be hospitalized due to COVID. I would like to see an actually useful comparison, like, say, the likelihood of being affected by myocarditis after receiving a vaccine versus the likelihood of being affected by myocarditis after a COVID infection.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#406

Post by pessimizer »

isolli wrote: post #165
jjeaff wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest issue is that a lot of people think they had covid previously but didn't get tested so they don't really know. I thought I had covid early in the pandemic. Took a serology test and found out that I had not had it. I suspect a lot of people that think they had it are the same.

Except that antibodies don’t tell the whole story. They may wane after a while, but the immune system is primed to fight off the virus at the next infection thanks to memory B cells and T cells. Unfortunately, T-cell tests are not available in Europe, and apparently not reliable in the US. Which confirms the original point: there seems to be little interest in detecting previous infections.

Which means that testing is really undependable. Probably better to vaccinate everyone, because our prediction of the immunity of people who have been vaccinated is a lot more reliable.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#407

Post by sk2020 »

not2b wrote: post #302

The vaccines are cheap (government paid about $20 per dose to buy them in mass quantities), safe, and effective, and in plentiful supply (at least in developed countries). Even if natural immunity provides some protection, better to just get everyone vaccinated to maximize the protection, because it would cost more to determine that someone has effective antibodies than to just give them the shot. The only reason peo…

Phase 3 trials won’t be complete for years. There is a revolving door between the leadership at the FDA and Pfizer. Countries with high vaccination rates have not reported the expected reduction in cases or deaths. The non-pharmaceutical interventions adopted by some states appear to have no impact on outcomes when compared to states without them. FDA approval of Comirnaty, which nobody got, is a pretty transparent rhetorical stratagem. The guarantees of safety are testimonials from people who either provided material support in the creation of this virus or inflicted Microsoft on the world (I’m not sure which is worse).

You may not find these (non-exhaustive) reasons compelling, but I don’t think hesitancy is the result of some unnamed cabal of villains casting aspersions on the pure intentions of the American politburo and pharmaceutical industry.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#408

Post by pengaru »

billycorben2 wrote: post #268
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

I am 28. A programmer with a sedentary lifestyle. I was covid positive last October and kicked it fine (verified with a test). I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?). Why should I get vaccinated?

Last October, so likely not Delta variant.

It's been widely reported by authorities on the subject that vaccination after infection with Alpha confers immunity to all currently known variants.

The same is not true for natural immunity from just an Alpha infection AIUI.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#409

Post by _-david-_ »

ttul wrote: post #169
ttul wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not the case. Children should be vaccinated. The Israeli study was useful in establishing that infection results in immunity. That’s it. It does not establish that infection is lower risk than vaccination. Children are at low risk from COVIS

Pushed reply too soon. Children are at low risk, but not no risk. To the extent that kids are running around with infections, they’re transmitting virus to others and providing a reservoir for mutation. That is not productive. Let’s get the kids vaccinated. It’s the cheapest way out of this thing.

Some children are at greater risk from the vaccine than covid so it seems reckless to just push vaccines. You will quite possibility kill more kids by pushing the vaccine on them.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#410

Post by rajin444 »

mattmanser wrote: post #316
beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

It's nothing to do with them catching it, it's about them spreading it. The usually bandied figure is 80% immunity to stop the pandemic. Without the teenagers vaccinated, that's never going to get hit. Wait until winter hits and the cases spike, then it's suddenly going to become "necessary", but if they'd made that hard decision 3 months ago this would already be over.

How can they know that figure (80%) without knowing % of people with natural immunity? We can guess but there hasn't been much of an effort made to track this.
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