Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

bmj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 1001 posts

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#361

Post by 34679 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #74
mioasndo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> COVID-19 Antibody Tests cost more than the vaccine (roughly $40 Vs. $16/dose). That's not a valid reason at all. > We lack the quantity of Antibody Tests we'd need. We also lacked vaccine quantity, and many people still do. > We'd need to set up additional systems and processes to accommodate the testing and proof (which, again, is a cost). Meh, that's a very weak reason considering it's a small incremental cost to…

Your argument has holes. - If the vaccine is safe. - If the vaccine is cheaper (directly and logistically). - If tracking the vaccine is easier. Why add the natural immunity workflow? It doesn't make sense. You've just added a bunch of complexity for no stated payoff. Again, this entire argument hinges on the first question being answered "no" or "maybe not." You yourself admit that that is your actual reason: > Furt…

>Why add the natural immunity workflow?

The natural immunity workflow:

Do I feel sick?

No -> Go about your day

Yes -> Stay at home

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#362

Post by n8henrie »

billycorben2 wrote: post #268
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

I am 28. A programmer with a sedentary lifestyle. I was covid positive last October and kicked it fine (verified with a test). I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?). Why should I get vaccinated?

I've seen several patients that were sicker the second time they got COVID, including people dying in their 20s and 30s. I can't speculate on what their antibody tests might have showed beforehand.

Why would you not get vaccinated?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#363

Post by Broken_Hippo »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

"Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12"

From what I understand, different ages of people tend to have different sorts of immune responses. While vaccines are safe and effective, it takes some time to get the dosages right for children because of the way their immune system responds to things - at least, with a new vaccine. I'm not an expert, though, and I got this information while looking up variances in side effects (older folks get less than younger folks, and folks with two x chromosomes - mostly females - tend to get more as well).

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#364

Post by nsxwolf »

not2b wrote: post #338
billycorben2 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 28. A programmer with a sedentary lifestyle. I was covid positive last October and kicked it fine (verified with a test). I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?). Why should I get vaccinated?

To provide additional protection (especially since given that timing it almost certainly wasn't the delta variant that you got). Maybe you are protected by your previous infection and maybe you aren't.

What's the connection to Delta here? They haven't updated the vaccines.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#365

Post by rootusrootus »

bedhead wrote: post #322
isolli wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not wrong in itself, your comment epitomizes everything that has been wrong with our public health response. Trying to manipulate populations into a desired behavior by lying to them is, as you point out, counterproductive in the long run.

Amen. We have been so unbelievably myopic with COVID it truly hurts my head. Even today, ask someone who's COVID-obsessed, "What exactly is your longer-term plan here?" and watch as their mind breaks down. Too many people have completely stopped thinking about what they're trying to achieve and how they're going to do it. Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and…

> Half the country is just stuck, focused on short-term and no attention paid to anything else and it's freakin disastrous.

Which half?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#366

Post by summerlight »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #172
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

> Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we…

> Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy.

One critical difference is that there will be legal consequences if you're using a fake proof of vaccination.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#367

Post by gizmondo »

nsxwolf wrote: post #364
not2b wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To provide additional protection (especially since given that timing it almost certainly wasn't the delta variant that you got). Maybe you are protected by your previous infection and maybe you aren't.

What's the connection to Delta here? They haven't updated the vaccines.

Which is infuriating by the way. The best explanation why (which I've seen) is "doh, that would be a bit inconvenient".

Is there, like, a rational reason?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#368

Post by steelframe »

EGreg wrote: post #296
throwaway894345 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we…

Do some people simply photoshop their names onto the cards and show them on their phones ? Is it really such a dumb system?

You probably don't even need to photoshop your name on the card. In most scenarios you could take a small and slightly blurry photo of anyone's card, bring it up on your phone to show someone, and they'll shrug and accept it as evidence that you're vaccinated.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#369

Post by sbakzbsmx »

mdoms wrote: post #246
aqme28 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe (or Germany at least) accepts natural immunity in lieu of vaccination. As far as I've heard, no one has been getting covid on purpose as a result.

German culture is not as feircly selfish as American culture. They also have far lower vaccine hesitancy rates.

Do we really want to start extolling the virtues of German culture and its obsession with virtues such as orderliness, obedience, hygiene?

German culture is all nice and tidy until someone, necessarily a deviant, needs to shout out: “STOP! We’re committing a crime!”

Teutons don't tolerate deviants.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#370

Post by nsxwolf »

isolli wrote: post #252
jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

While not wrong in itself, your comment epitomizes everything that has been wrong with our public health response. Trying to manipulate populations into a desired behavior by lying to them is, as you point out, counterproductive in the long run.

I believe we'd see more people choose to be vaccinated if we'd:

* Stop lying

* Stop threatening

* Stop mocking people when they die

Post reply on HN