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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#221

Post by isolli »

morsch wrote: post #162
darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

Same study came to the result that getting a shot after surviving an infection (unvaccinated) gives even better protection. The real interesting comparison would be immunity after getting a breakthrough infection compared to other kinds of acquired immunity. I'm sure we'll get that study eventually. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

This second result is a lot weaker than the first, however:

“Individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 seem to gain additional protection from a subsequent single-dose vaccine regimen. Though this finding corresponds to previous reports, we could not demonstrate significance in our cohort.”

At the moment, this does not justify mandating the vaccine for those previously infected.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#222

Post by aqme28 »

jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

Europe (or Germany at least) accepts natural immunity in lieu of vaccination. As far as I've heard, no one has been getting covid on purpose as a result.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#223

Post by glogla »

jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

> Which leads to more deaths and outbreaks.

Worse, it leads to

1. new COVID variants, some of which will be worse than what we have,

2. more deaths from people who had some other health emergency while unvaccinated idiots are slowly dying in the hospitals taking valuable beds, and

3. to more burned out, dead and PTSD suffering healthcare personal.

I would recommend everyone to browse [1] and [2]. Not being vaccinated if you can, is truly disgusting, selfish and stupid choice.

[1]: https://old.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/ [2]: https://old.reddit.com/r/nursing/

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#224

Post by rscho »

vinay427 wrote: post #204
rscho wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't count in at least Switzerland, and I believe all through western Europe as well...

It does count in Switzerland. Source: I live here. Also, the government: https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home/krankheiten/ausbrueche-... > People who have recovered – what to do > You can get a COVID certificate if the COVID infection was confirmed with a positive PCR test and occurred no more than 180 days ago. > You can request the COVID certificate from your cantonal authority using an online form. It will then be…

I also live here and additionally I'm an MD. But I didn't check sources before posting ('cause I'm feeling lazy, a mortal sin in covid threads).

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#225

Post by bitcurious »

Someone1234 wrote: post #52

The answers aren't medical, they're pragmatic. - COVID-19 Antibody Tests cost more than the vaccine (roughly $40 Vs. $16/dose). - We lack the quantity of Antibody Tests we'd need. - We'd need to set up additional systems and processes to accommodate the testing and proof (which, again, is a cost). The implicit assumption that often go along with these natural immunity proponents is that the vaccine is unsafe. Since i…

> COVID-19 Antibody Tests cost more than the vaccine (roughly $40 Vs. $16/dose).

So a marginal cost of $24. Folks with natural immunity will have a stronger reaction to the vaccine, but let’s be conservative. Let’s say 12 hours of symptoms - headache, fatigue, light fever. Very standard with a shot. At around the minimum wage of $8/hour that’s a cost of $96. How much do you value your time?

Full disclosure: happily vaccinated. The vaccine is safe, but it’s dammed inconvenient.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#226

Post by unanswered »

mjg59 wrote: post #39
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It depends entirely on an individual immune system detects and combats a particular infection. How is that different from a vaccine?

The vaccine either contains or triggers the production of a specific protein that is (fairly) stable across variants - so there's only one thing for the immune system to key off. The concern around natural immunity is that your immune system may respond to some aspect of the virus that isn't as stable, ie it ends up recognising part of the virus that's present in your current infection but may not be in a later infec…

So you're literally arguing that it's better if we have an immunological monoculture?

Be honest: have you passed high school biology?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#227

Post by Mikealcl »

oppositelock wrote: post #213
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

I've got a child under 12, and while everyone in my household over 12 is vaccinated, I'm not sure if the vaccine has any point for him. If you look at CDC stats, today there are only 412 reported covid19 deaths in the 0-17 age group, 138 in the 0-4 group, meaning 274 in the 4-17 group out of 670,000. Furthermore, kids rarely need treatment, so most infections go undiagnosed. While I have no objection to a vaccine, an…

Not sure how accurate that is based on the children’s hospitals in the southern United States being at capacity from COVID. Long symptoms have also become an issue in children.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#230

Post by [deleted] »

oppositelock wrote: post #213
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

I've got a child under 12, and while everyone in my household over 12 is vaccinated, I'm not sure if the vaccine has any point for him. If you look at CDC stats, today there are only 412 reported covid19 deaths in the 0-17 age group, 138 in the 0-4 group, meaning 274 in the 4-17 group out of 670,000. Furthermore, kids rarely need treatment, so most infections go undiagnosed. While I have no objection to a vaccine, an…

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