Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 687 posts

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#421

Post by zepto »

remarkEon wrote: post #350
zepto wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this sarcastic answer helpful? As far as I can see you have provided no useful information. If you don’t think universities are the right people to help with this question, who would you recommend to answer it? You said: “Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact.” How do you know this fact?

> How is this sarcastic answer helpful? It’s helpful because it’s pointing out how absurd it is to constantly demand “data” to verify rudimentary observations of human nature. For whatever reason, and maybe it’s because of tech being so data obsessed, you can make a claim on this website as benign as “look both ways before crossing the street” and inevitably someone will want to see a “peer reviewed” study that says…

>>> Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact.

>>> In all societies across time? Or just in American High schools and on Instagram?

>> How do you know this fact?

>My name is remarkEon and I went to middle and high school in the United States on a planet I call Earth.

Ok, so you think your American High school experience gives you insight into all societies across time.

Understood. Your answers make sense now. Thanks for answering.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#422

Post by 908B64B197 »

Tarsul wrote: post #83
jefftk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, teens blaming Instagram does not mean Instagram actually has that effect.

there was this absolutely devastating graphic about rising suicide rates of teen girls which coincided with mobiles and especially instagram. Sorry can't find it right now.

If we're going to correlate, we can do it with with obesity as well.

In 2018 "obesity prevalence was [...] 21.2% among 12- to 19-year-olds." [0] according to the CDC. That's one out of 5 being obese, not overweight. And it has more than tripled since the 70's [1].

And then we start blaming the "evil screens" for people not finding themselves attractive.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/childhood.html

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity_child_15_16/obe...

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#423

Post by mikeyla85 »

rg111 wrote: post #66

I don't blame Facebook (or Twitter, or any particular company) for this. We can only blame scale . Some things are much more scalable than others, and "beauty" scales. And the "occurrence of beauty" does, too. Before the advent of scale on almost every aspect of our lives, a local musician or theatre group found easy income. Now, since after the invention of gramophones, more people can listen to less and less musici…

Hard disagree. Facebook does not need to optimize profit and growth in every product decision. They make choices about what to amplify, knowing the consequences of those choices.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#424

Post by spoonjim »

smithza wrote: post #283
wussboy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a personal grudge against anyone saying "Why don't the parents take some responsibility to combat a multi-billion dollar company who puts the resources of small countries in to making their children behave in detrimental ways." But I'll not get in to that. :) Facebook and Instagram are drug dealers. Sure, they're not physically distributing a substance, but the social interactions they provide are every bit as…

I will say emphatically that parents of teens are the most influential people in their lives, whether acknowledged or no. It is likely the case that parents will forever be the most influential people in someone's life and the positions you take, the behaviors you engage in, and what you teach will stick with them for their whole lives. Take a stance and teach them. They may rebel, they may not, but years down the ro…

This is true, and people with highly involved parents, on the average, destroy their lives with drugs less frequently than those with absentee or abusive parents. We still throw heroin dealers in jail.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#425

Post by root_axis »

q3k wrote: post #253
temp8964 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram basically wouldn't allow you see anything if you don't login. All you need to do is delete your Instagram account, then you are out. I never have an Instagram account, and never see the need to create one. I had a Facebook account, but I deleted it years ago. Problem solved.

Unfortunately, this shit is addictive and implying that the solution is _just_ for people to delete their account is effectively blaming the victim. Some people never start smoking and never have a nicotine addiction problem. Some people smoke a few times or even occasionally but don't pick up a habit. Some people get addicted but manage to quit easily, some manage to quit after many attempts. Some can't quit ever, b…

> for people to delete their account is effectively blaming the victim.

I think it's fair to describe social media as addicting, but it's not the same thing as a chemical addiction where one can experience physical dependency and withdrawals. "Just quit" really is a valid solution, the reality is that most people just prefer to complain about social media rather than accept that they are responsible for how they spend their time.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#426

Post by ff317 »

wussboy wrote: post #200
andrewingram wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often think of Facebook/Zuckerberg as the perfect example of why having a mission statement (something something connecting all the people) that seems perfectly non-controversial in a vacuum, often leads to a willing delusion that this must mean it's always a good thing and justifies any means. They reach a point where they're fundamentally unable to honestly ask themselves whether their "good thing" is actually go…

This is a very interesting point. As someone who wants to start an organization with a very strong mission statement, it brings a sense of caution. Is it the mission statement itself which is dangerous? Or is it possible to come up with a "good" one?

IMHO, there's nothing inherently wrong with having a mission statement.

The fix here is that you must balance that mission statement with a well-defined set of Values as well. The mission is what you want to accomplish in the world, and the Values are the principles you plan to adhere to while doing so. The values can't just be some afterthought "check the box" exercise - they have to have significant decision-making weight in practice.

A set of (imperfect, I'm sure!) examples from the Wikimedia Foundation:

Mission: https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/mission/ Values: https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/values/

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#427

Post by stickfigure »

treis wrote: post #374
pfortuny wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits" That statement cannot be false because it is devoid of any content, being a mere hypothetical. The fact that it is surrounded by "research" is meaningless as well, as the aforementioned sentence is like saying "the elements of the empty set fulfil all properties"... So no, they are not contradicting themselves. They are simply a…

The research the GP's quote is referencing said Instagram made 41% feel better, 31% worse, and no impact for the other 28%. It's not clear why that can be used as evidence that it makes some girls feel worse about themselves but that it makes some girls feel better about themselves.

Probably any social activity is similar. I'm willing to bet the statistics for "high school prom" are much worse. And then there's Cosmo and Vogue...

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#428

Post by dgs_sgd »

pfortuny wrote: post #296
blakesterz wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/egPlc “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing... “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues. “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiet…

"Using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits" That statement cannot be false because it is devoid of any content, being a mere hypothetical. The fact that it is surrounded by "research" is meaningless as well, as the aforementioned sentence is like saying "the elements of the empty set fulfil all properties"... So no, they are not contradicting themselves. They are simply a…

It's a true statement. Surely connecting via social apps has had positive mental health benefits on at least one person. That alone would make it true.

I think the problem is most people probably read the statement and don't realize just how weak the evidence required to make it true is.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#429

Post by ruined »

wussboy wrote: post #193
ruined wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't think people can identify something that hurts them?

I'm not on any side in this particular argument, but there are thousands of things we do/eat/experience every day which hurt us and we have no idea.

this clearly meets the threshold, though. i don't know a single person who has used social media that considers it not-harmful overall, mostly it's a justified use of "i need it for x so i have to put up with the downsides"

it just seems really silly to me to walk into this thread about how Facebook internally believes they're doing harm, and reply to a statement about how the harmed demographic feels they're being harmed, in the context of well-documented ways that harm occurs and what kind of effects it has, with a statement doubting the harm actually exists and questioning the self-reported experience of harm

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#430

Post by dgs_sgd »

gerry_shaw wrote: post #362
dweekly wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Foods containing sugar have been found to save lives in a number of studies." "Regular smoking use is associated with lower BMI, which is shown to correlate with improved heart health and lower mortality rates." "Use of fossil fuels powers a number of ecology-preserving tasks, allowing us to care for the environment in a way we could not without this amazing source of Earth-loving fuel."

You are far too good at crafting these passages.

It's fairly easy if you understand the meaning of "can be true". There can be countless instances where it's not true but if you find just _one_ instance where it's true, then your "can be true" statement must be true.
Post reply on HN