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Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

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Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#341

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

> Why are young girls so awful to each other? Why does this conversation always have to exclusively revolve around how young girls treat each other? Young boys are awful to young girls. Women and men are awful to young girls. The question you should be asking is why do we as a society tolerate people (of any age and any gender!) being so awful to girls? The article is about Facebook , the company. Facebook isn’t run…

> The question you should be asking is why do we as a society tolerate people (of any age and any gender!) being so awful to girls?

This.

Girls are policed from a very young age - how you have to act, "proper" ways to dress, to wear makeup, etc. Being told from a young age that old men being absolute creeps and knowingly hitting on prepubescent girls is normal and that you should be happy that he finds you attractive. Being told that you basically have no agency for something entirely out of your control. Having teachers stand by and do nothing when boys pull up your skirt to cop a look.

And this only gets worse as teenagers, with guys getting ballsier with their creepiness, expectations to be mature and wear outfits that appeal to the male gaze while simultaneously being chastised for being "too distracting," as if men get the uncontrollable urge to masturbate just because of a pair of leggings... (It seems absurd, but just look at dress code enforcement at public schools in America and you will find this is basically the thought process of many administrators.)

And that's ignoring how religious figures and other men in your life tell you that because you are a woman, you are inferior and should always be subservient, always do as your husband tells you, demonizing women who cheat or have children out of wedlock while glossing over absent fathers who didn't feel like wearing a condom or have a mistress.

And to top it all off, if you try and speak up for yourself, to have agency, you're shut down by the adults who are supposed to be keeping order, saying "boys will be boys" and dismissing groping and rape by blaming you for the way you dressed, for hanging out with some crowd, being out late at night, etc.

If you try to resist this treatment, you're labeled rude, catty, a bitch. People who already treated you as unimportant simply for being a woman now actively denigrate you. They already said you were exaggerating your menstrual pains, now they say you're faking it all.

So, what do you get when girls hit puberty? There's a lot of frustration at the world, frustration with the boys in our classes, frustration at the men in charge, frustration with the women in power who defend the system just because it's slightly less horrendous than what they grew up with, and it comes to a head with hormones throwing emotions into overdrive and the general awkwardness of puberty. And you can't take it out on the guys your age, they're untouchable, and adults will just write you off as being on your period if you try to get them to change their behavior.

Reading about how teenage girls' "peak fertility" (which isn't even accurate) causes fighting really just shows how many men on this website believe everything women do is about them, that our worlds revolve around attracting mates, that we have no other priorities in life. No, it's just that we can take out frustrations on other girls our age without being labeled as crazy. It sucks, but that's the reality of it. Not that we only take out our frustrations by bullying others, of course, (most do not bully, just vent to friends, and I know I was never one to dish it out) but there's a reason it's rare for teenage girls to bully teenage guys the way they do each other.

Every time I hear guys say stuff like "you can't even approach women now thanks to #metoo," I think about all the anger they've never had to deal with, how high on a pedestal they've been their entire lives. They think "oh well if girls catcalled me, I'd love it," while not thinking about getting catcalled since before you were even old enough to know what catcalling is. They think the idea of male privilege is "feminist bullshit" while never having to worry about getting whistled at and approached by creeps who won't take no for an answer until you say "I have a boyfriend" (because they only respect women when they can see them as the property of other men). They've never regularly felt fear when strangers followed them because the average man can pummel the average woman, or feared going to the police who will ask you a million degrading questions instead of focusing on prosecuting your rapist.

I wish that the generations who come after us wouldn't have to worry about this. But given how much work it took to get to where we are now, and how much conservatives (at least in America) have already taken away, I do not have faith that the status quo will meaningfully change before humanity manages to destroy itself. Especially after seeing so many conservatives openly say that the Taliban doesn't seem all that bad after realizing they'd like to control women and minorities in the same way.

Rant over. I really hate these "men debate women's biology without ever asking for a woman's opinion" comment chains. These "discussions" really need to stay put on incel forums.

Edit: I didn't really even go into the pressure to look skinny (oftentimes to an unhealthy degree) and the way people talk about you for not conforming. To fit into a size 0, stay [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyK1wc4kWj4

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/31/eating-disor...

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#342
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point I just wish Zuckerberg would give one single fuck .

Facebook will collapse the same way Lehmann and the Afghan army did. Just a few more nudges. And it all falls down.

Why do you believe this?

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teenage girls are predisposed to behave in the way described, and Facebook/Instagram is profiting by exploiting that. Has this been studied, or are we taking an arbitrary thought experiment as a foundational axiom?

It’s kind of amazing to me that an observation that anyone could make based on their experience as a human living on planet earth gets discounted because there isn’t some peer reviewed study from Harvard or whatever that confirms the observation. Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact. We don’t need an army of data scientists to “look into it”.

Experience and observation are a great place to begin an investigation. Of course if you're not careful, they can incorrectly color your results. As you say, anecdotal beliefs are not necessarily facts.

That said, the error I see more commonly is that the observation is perfectly valid, (or at least roughly valid) but the explanation is poor. People believe in the explanation because they feel so strongly about the observation. This is a fallacy I see over and over again. (and is often something I've seen leveraged in scams: "You've all experienced X. Here are some emotional stories about X. Now let me tell you how I have all the answers to X.")

I've tried to make it clear that my idea is not proven, but is something that I think is reasonable, and will hopefully lead to an interesting discussion. I'm definitely not suggesting that I have access to the truth, or that my idea is fact simply because I've explained something using scientific terms.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#344

IMO, A simple social media site focused on pictures wouldn't be nearly as damaging on its own. What's really causing the issue are the filters and photo editing, which has caused "beauty" standards to hit extremely unrealistic levels, and their self-esteem plummets. I put beauty in quotes because many of those filters are extremely unattractive, making their skin look like plastic and lips look cartoonishly large. So…

My wife has many friends who use filters on all their pictures and these people look nothing like their original selves. Imagine you're even a decent looking kid and every damn photo you come across online are these unrealistic fake images that are portrayed as real.

I know photo editing has been done in marketing for decades, but the biggest difference is that you knew those were professional models and people you'd never meet in real life, but this, this is pervasive down to the level of "normal" people, skewing what "normal" is supposed to be.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits" That statement cannot be false because it is devoid of any content, being a mere hypothetical. The fact that it is surrounded by "research" is meaningless as well, as the aforementioned sentence is like saying "the elements of the empty set fulfil all properties"... So no, they are not contradicting themselves. They are simply a…

wow this is fascinating, taking the veneer of something in the tautological space and using it as sheep's clothing over something known to be a wolf. There's something curious about this form of misleading that deserves to be identified and named to be called out in future instances.

Everything is subjective. Especially laws. So everyone should revolt and over throw the us government.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming people have morals to appeal to - most don't. When everyone is connected to everyone else the asshole always prevail. The solution is to sever the connections.

One would dare say that an overwhelming majority of people does have morals. But a very small minority that doesn't have morals, is causing the illusion that it's most people that don't have them.

As individuals, maybe, but as a society I have a hard time seeing proof when there is normalized wage slavery, the animal industrial complex, and any industry with money or power is deeply corrupted.

Right now we have a large percentage of people that refuse to get a vaccine to protect their neighbors.

Everyone might have morals, but the bar is low.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#347

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

Going back to the similarity between Facebook and the tobacco industry that the article points out, you could make the case that Phillip Morris is not to blame because people are naturally prone to nicotine addiction. I hope that at some point we as a society figure out that unregulated social media has the same damaging potential as tobacco, alcohol or gambling, especially for kids.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#349
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a personal grudge against anyone saying "Why don't the parents take some responsibility to combat a multi-billion dollar company who puts the resources of small countries in to making their children behave in detrimental ways." But I'll not get in to that. :) Facebook and Instagram are drug dealers. Sure, they're not physically distributing a substance, but the social interactions they provide are every bit as…

>>In time, society will abolish or tightly constrain them in the same way society has banned other highly addictive substances. I hope not, the War on Drugs is one of the biggest disasters in modern history, directly linked to untold problems in society

You've now got me picturing a guy holding tablets in a trench coat in a dark alley with asking some teenagers passing buy if they wanna buy some time on social media.

"I got it all, buddy. Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook...I can hook you up."

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#350
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lemme get Yale on the phone, or better yet Oxford. Maybe they can provide us an answer to the question of “are young girls mean to each other, yes or no”.

How is this sarcastic answer helpful? As far as I can see you have provided no useful information. If you don’t think universities are the right people to help with this question, who would you recommend to answer it? You said: “Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact.” How do you know this fact?

> How is this sarcastic answer helpful?

It’s helpful because it’s pointing out how absurd it is to constantly demand “data” to verify rudimentary observations of human nature. For whatever reason, and maybe it’s because of tech being so data obsessed, you can make a claim on this website as benign as “look both ways before crossing the street” and inevitably someone will want to see a “peer reviewed” study that says looking both ways before crossing the street “affects the outcome variable” of not getting hit by a car.

> If you don’t think universities are the right people to help with this question, who would you recommend to answer it?

Your mother, or your sister if you have one.

>How do you know this fact?

My name is remarkEon and I went to middle and high school in the United States on a planet I call Earth.

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