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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#291

Post by jayd16 »

tzs wrote: post #246
mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

> If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). That seems worth checking. US flu deaths per year over the last 10 years ranged from 12000 to 61000, averaging 35900 [1]. That's 3.7 to 18.6 per 100k, averaging 10.9 per 100k. Weekly COVID deaths among vaccinated people is 0.1 per 100k [2]. The flu season is typically about 8 months. A weekly death rate of 0.1 per 100k over…

Doesn't seem quite right to compare historical flu rates of the general population to mask mandated covid rates among vaccinated.

As it is today, it seems like flu deaths are far less frequent than covid deaths. Cherry picked link but it _is_ the cdc.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

>Among the 3,388 PIC deaths reported for this week, 2,785 had COVID-19 listed as an underlying or contributing cause of death on the death certificate, and three listed influenza, indicating that current PIC mortality is due primarily to COVID-19 and not influenza.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#292

Post by chitowneats »

mr_overalls wrote: post #269
nafix wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's highly ignorant to call unvaccinated Americans idiots. Over 100 million Americans have already caught and recovered from Covid. I imagine many in that group don't see any value in getting the vaccine (rightfully so).

Choosing to risk catching a disease with a 1-2% case fatality rate, while refusing an overwhelmingly safe and effective vaccine is the definition of idiocy.

IFR is a better metric than CFR:

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s...

The overall IFR is misleading, given how age-stratified the risk is:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#293

Post by sseagull »

merrywhether wrote: post #242
mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

There’s a serious disconnect between public health experts and the general public, and the experts have continued to not learn that lesson over the last year plus. It’s mind-boggling. Earlier in the summer, we lifted mask mandates “because the vaccines were preventing disease”, and regardless of the technical facts behind that decision, the perception was reality for the general public. Now they are trying to walk th…

> Public health officials need to understand that their primary job is managing public perception of a situation first and foremost. They can go push their glasses up and pedantically spout off technical corrections behind closed doors as much as they want, but in public they have to connect and empathize with normal humans.

So what should they have said in the beginning? If they don't give technical reasons, they will be accused of talking down from their ivory tower, dictating policy with a 'just trust us' attitude, or of being biased/political.

But if they give technical reasons, people will nitpick those, especially if the data is incomplete or evolving.

There were lots of people being correct and nuanced, but they were drowned out (partly for political reasons I suspect).

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#294

Post by adolph »

setgree wrote: post #271
adolph wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I basically decided to go it alone . . . apply scientific reasoning to the issue Please be sure to publish the results of your study of one.

it's been two whole days since my booster and no covid yet :)

Ok, let’s put that on PLOS and roll up some sleeves!

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#295

Post by refurb »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #234
refurb wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the unvaccinated idiots is about as effective as calling the obese, alcoholics, people who don’t take their medication, etc, idiots. Apparently we have sympathy for people who fail to make good health choices except for the unvaccinated. Not effective at all.

If someone were struggling with alcoholism, and I offered them an FDA approved shot to remove their addiction to alcohol, I would consider them fairly stupid if they refused it. Handling diseases and addictions is a long term struggle, not similar to a one time choice at all. It is orders of magnitude easier to get a covid shot than to rid yourself of an addiction.

I’m glad your not a doctor then?

First off, the vaccine does not eliminate the risk of Covid. If you went to an alcoholic and said “this shot has a 90% chance of curing you of alcoholism but had side effects and you might end up quitting anyways” would you still call them an idiot for hesitating?

Type 2 diabetics can prevent most of the complications if they adhere to a strict diet and medication regimen. When they end up getting a limb amputated do you call them idiots as well?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#296

Post by treesknees »

causi wrote: post #112
standardUser wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have primarily observed a modest decline in effectiveness among older people and the immunocompromised, which is why some jurisdictions have recommended boosters for these people (Israel, California). There is a reason boosters have not been approved anywhere for the general population, and that is because so far the data does not indicate they are necessary.

Necessary and useful are two vastly different things. My state is throwing expired vaccine into the garbage. I'd take a booster even if it only made me five percent safer.

This is the part I don't understand. There is an oversupply of vaccines, why not let me go get my 3rd shot if it's already here? I understand the desire to take those "extra" vaccines and ship them to other countries, but if the vaccine is already distributed out around the country, it would be more expensive and hazardous to collect them back up safely than to just administer boosters to those who want it.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#297

Post by bgentry »

rattlesnakedave wrote: post #213
thesis wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes. Idiots? All this condescension all the time. Maybe some people won’t get the vaccine because they already had Covid. Israeli study showed that people who had Covid are more protected than the vaccinated.

I’m not sure what else you would call someone with such a skewed risk assessment that they think taking a vaccine that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective, provided free of charge, isn’t worth their time. Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19. We have a much better idea with the vaccines. Even more, studies suggest that unvaccinate…

>There is NO reason to not be vaccinated at this point if you can be.

If you've already had COVID, especially recently, that's a pretty damn good reason to not get vaccinated given that your immunity is likely far stronger and more durable than a vaccinated-but-COVID-naïve person. [1]

While getting vaccinated on top might help (there is not definitive data on this yet AFAIK [2]), it is also not 100% risk-free. So why would you do that if you're already more immune and thus less of a risk / less at-risk than the vaccinated population?

For some people it might make sense to still get vaccinated after COVID recovery. But for those who choose not to, it's not at all fair to say they are all "idiots" or that there is "no reason" not to still get the shot. That's not accurate based on what the actual science tells us at this time.

[1]: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P

[2]: https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vacci...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#298

Post by refurb »

RHSeeger wrote: post #231
refurb wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the unvaccinated idiots is about as effective as calling the obese, alcoholics, people who don’t take their medication, etc, idiots. Apparently we have sympathy for people who fail to make good health choices except for the unvaccinated. Not effective at all.

> obese Requires lifestyle change > alcoholics Requires lifestyle change > people who don’t take their medication Requires lifestyle change > Vaccine Requires a choice and a half day off. There is a BIG difference there.

What you call lifestyle changes I call “need to make a decision”. Patients make terrible healthcare choices all the time. If we’re going to hammer them on vaccines let’s go all in, huh?

Obesity causes massive costs and burden on our healthcare system yet I don’t see people calling them idiots.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#299

Post by swader999 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #153
nradov wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shouldn't be down voted. It appears to be correct and is a subject of active concern in NZ. https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2021/08/02/fight-against-...

I down-voted because that has nothing to do with a "degraded immune systems". Many of the more common respiratory viruses also died out in New Zealand with the quarantine. Kids never got a chance to develop immunity to those particular diseases previously and now it's coming on in a wave as they are reintroduced. It's not that their response is special, in normal circumstances kids would have gotten sick and been hos…

No, they would have stronger immune systems from repeated exposure without the extreme lockdowns NZ introduced and less hospitalizations.

Respiratory viruses don't die out, they can persist in animal populations indefinitely. Sars Cov2 antibodies detected in 40% of NE deer populations for instance. Not to mention cats and dogs...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#300

Post by setgree »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #285
setgree wrote: post #258

I just got an unsanctioned booster in NY (a 2nd J&J). I expect a 2nd J&J, though classified as a booster, to provide an immunogenic response comparable to a second dose of Moderna or Pfizer; the fact that J&J marketed itself as a 1-dose rather than 2-dose solution seems to have been motivated by a desire to get to market faster [0] rather than something intrinsic about the vaccine, and we already know that one dose o…

You've convinced me to do the same. Thanks. Tip for anyone following suit: If you're worried that they'll "catch" that they've already vaccinated you, by seeing your name and address in their database, just claim that your parent/child has the same name and lives with you. You can search for a provider of your desired type of vaccine here: https://www.vaccines.gov/search/

You're welcome, I hope it goes well; of course I am not a doctor not a source of medical advice etc.

RE: addresses: they just grabbed my driver's license and asked if I was still in the same address; the actual answer was no and I gave my new address. so you can say whatever you'd like

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