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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#211

Post by adamrezich »

_kulang wrote: post #207
thesis wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes. Idiots? All this condescension all the time. Maybe some people won’t get the vaccine because they already had Covid. Israeli study showed that people who had Covid are more protected than the vaccinated.

Doesn’t hurt to get vaccinated anyway. In fact that should offer the most protection overall. And that’s besides the point as the recovered may as well be vaccinated in the context of this discussion.

somebody's gotta be the control group in all of this, I'll take one for the team, in the name of Science

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#212

Post by krolley »

moviewise wrote: post #195

The CDC has a pdf (downloadable) presentation about the data being used to decide on COVID booster vaccines: https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/108332/cdc_108332_DS1.pdf The UK government has data showing that about 2X more fully vaccinated people are dying from COVID than the unvaccinated (1,091 fully vaccinated vs. 536 vaccinated), even though the unvaccinated account for 3X more patients coming in for emergency care…

I saw the same comment on a different thread today, so I decided to have a sceptical look at the summary and analysis link. From that link:

> Here is the pro-vaccine argument: “It isn’t the absolute number of deaths that should be compared as there are 20 times MORE people vaccinated over age 50 (where most deaths occur) than unvaccinated. The UK has a 95% vaccination rate for people over 50. The rate of deaths is much, much lower in the vaccinated population. The rate of death is the number who have died in a population (vaccinated or unvaccinated) relative to the size of the population, usually expressed as number per 100,000 people. With 20,000,000 vaccinated people over 50, the death rate is 3.2 (per 100,000 people), but for the 1,000,000 UNvaccinated people, the death rate is 32 (per 100,000 people) — ten times higher. In other words, the vaccine is 90% effective against death, consistent with what was found in the original clinical trials.” Of course, the chart also shows that people who are UNvaccinated are twice as likely to need overnight hospitalization than vaccinated people (4,033 vs 2,204), and thus this is one of the strongest justifications/reasons to get vaccinated.

I'm glad what appears to be an anti-vax article was actually showing both sides.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#213

Post by rattlesnakedave »

thesis wrote: post #187
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant Friend’s mother visiting from Jamaica. People in her country are dying while they wait for first shots. The voluntarily unvaccinated in America are idiots. The author’s point is there are billions of unvoluntarily unvaccinated around the world to whom these doses could go.

Yikes. Idiots? All this condescension all the time. Maybe some people won’t get the vaccine because they already had Covid. Israeli study showed that people who had Covid are more protected than the vaccinated.

I’m not sure what else you would call someone with such a skewed risk assessment that they think taking a vaccine that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective, provided free of charge, isn’t worth their time.

Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19. We have a much better idea with the vaccines.

Even more, studies suggest that unvaccinated people who already had COVID-19 are more than 2 times as likely than fully vaccinated people to get COVID-19 again. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

There is NO reason to not be vaccinated at this point if you can be.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#214

Post by tguvot »

sradman wrote: post #77

There is not strong evidence supporting a 3rd booster dose in immunocompetent people. We have partly seen a misinterpretation of the Israeli data [1] and specifically the single low effectiveness value that appears to be the result of Simpson's Paradox [2]. Dr. Fauci reported this single value decline from the high nineties to the high seventies on Andy Slavitt's podcast [3]. Pfizer's CEO has promoted this same data,…

with regards to misinterpretation of israeli data, it's more like miscalculation of israeli data:

1) his calculated efficiency for different age groups is up to 40%+ higher compared to numbers that released by israeli ministry of health in official presentations. when asked about it, he said that he doesn't know how they calculate it and this is his numbers

2) his calculations from the beginning included people that got booster shot. Kinda hard to base statistics about efficiency of two doses when you get inside it data about people who got three

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#215

Post by refurb »

moviewise wrote: post #202
refurb wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that would somewhat makes sense? Those at highest risk of Covid would be vaccinated, those at lowest risk unvaccinated.

Yes. Also this: “It isn’t the absolute number of deaths that should be compared as there are 20 times MORE people vaccinated over age 50 (where most deaths occur) than unvaccinated. The UK has a 95% vaccination rate for people over 50. The rate of deaths is much, much lower in the vaccinated population. The rate of death is the number who have died in a population (vaccinated or unvaccinated) relative to the size of…

This is the challenging part is that there are multiple factors which impact risk and benefit from the vaccine. And those are dependent up the population examined - the vaccinated (likely higher risk), hospitalized (likely higher risk), etc.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#216

Post by mattwad »

mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

The reason for masks always has been to flatten the curve. The hospitals are too full for everyone just to get it and get it over with, so people without COVID can't get medical help. Right now, the CDC recommends everyone older than 2 years old should wear a mask indoors. This is not just to protect kids but prevent them spreading it.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si....

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#217

Post by macintux »

CountDrewku wrote: post #197
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others Was in Jackson Hole for Labor Day weekend. They border Idaho, whose voluntarily unvaccinated have filled its hospitals. In four days I met as many nurses and one doctor who quit out of frustration. They could no longer empathise with their patients, each describing a visceral anger at tending to ICUs of COVID patients, all unv…

>They could no longer empathise with their patients, each describing a visceral anger at tending to ICUs of COVID patients, all unvaccinated. Did you ask them if they treat obese people the same way?

If obesity could be prevented with a simple shot, and was otherwise overwhelming our healthcare system, that might be a useful question.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#218

Post by refurb »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #147
mchusma wrote: post #139

The whole booster conversation seems like a political game. If you have a vaccine, then your risk of death is far below that of the flu (statistically). If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant. Kids are banned from taking anything. So I expect booster or no booster, frankly it just won't matter much at the population scale. I also don't understand the mas…

> If you don't have a vaccine by now, you want covid instead and this booster conversation is irrelevant Friend’s mother visiting from Jamaica. People in her country are dying while they wait for first shots. The voluntarily unvaccinated in America are idiots. The author’s point is there are billions of unvoluntarily unvaccinated around the world to whom these doses could go.

Calling the unvaccinated idiots is about as effective as calling the obese, alcoholics, people who don’t take their medication, etc, idiots.

Apparently we have sympathy for people who fail to make good health choices except for the unvaccinated.

Not effective at all.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#219

Post by _-david-_ »

rattlesnakedave wrote: post #213
thesis wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes. Idiots? All this condescension all the time. Maybe some people won’t get the vaccine because they already had Covid. Israeli study showed that people who had Covid are more protected than the vaccinated.

I’m not sure what else you would call someone with such a skewed risk assessment that they think taking a vaccine that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective, provided free of charge, isn’t worth their time. Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19. We have a much better idea with the vaccines. Even more, studies suggest that unvaccinate…

>that has proven to be incredibly safe and effective,

There are no long term studies so calling it incredibly safe is misleading at best. What happens if some issues start cropping up in 5 or 10 years.

>Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19.

So it could be longer than vaccines? Some places are already pushing for boosters since vaccine efficacy is waning. It seems like we should look into this.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#220

Post by frumper »

wang_li wrote: post #155
MontagFTB wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe a serious issue with your “protect the unvaccinated” statement is it overlooks the amount of pressure they exert on our shared medical system. If your hospital beds are overrun with unvaccinated Covid patients, there is less room for others.

We could address the hospitalization issue by doing a better job of deciding when to hospitalize. It seems that more than half of the cases of those who are taking spaces in hospitals are asymptomstic, mild, or incidental. https://news.yahoo.com/57-percent-vaccinated-covid-19-203448...

They're in the hospital for other reasons.
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