401–410 of 460 posts
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Vaccinations are already forced on e.g. school-going kids in the name of the public good, for very good reasons!
They're often not forced for mundane tasks such as going to the restaurant or the gym. And the vaccines were administered for decades prior and for diseases far more dangerous than Covid19.
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They could ban elderly and overweight people and other such undesirables^Wvulnerable people from civil society too. For their own good.
Overweight and elderly is not something you can fix in an hour with a free vaccine shot. Don’t you see the obvious difference?
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>> Is heart disease exponentially contagious with the potential to strain medical resources in a matter of days? > How is this relevant when vaccinated people are still contagious? Because while still contagious, they are not exponentially contagious. It's not like I left out that important qualifier in the statement you are replying to. Vaccinated people can spread in case of a breakthrough infection and infections…
>Because while still contagious, they are not exponentially contagious. It's not like I left out that important qualifier in the statement you are replying to. 1. source? 2. It really wasn't obvious because you failed to link "vaccinated" with "not exponentially contagious". >What does encryption have anything to do with vaccination and vaccination passports? In the previous comment you basically made the argument th…
2. I mean, this whole discussion is rather about the merits of vaccinations no?
> ... I just took that argument to its logical conclusion ...
This is just dishonest and misleading chain of reasoning:
- Law enforcement and public health are both public resources, yes, but of different nature and not comparable. I thought that's rather self-evident. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that law enforcement is indeed stretched thin, aiding law enforcement takes on an entirely different form than aiding the public health sector.
- Encryption is not analogous to vaccination passports at all. It's not even an apples to oranges comparison, more like, apples to cars.
Please, do learn how metaphors work.
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Of course the vaccination isn't a perfect shield -- not against covid infections nor transmission... who said it was? But wouldn't that be a pretty stupid bar to set? You said the vaccine does not prevent people from getting infected. That is not true. The popular vaccines are about 95% effective. Also, people who are not infected do not transmit the virus -- that is a rather effective limit on transmission. Apart fr…
Of course! Now how is it logical to not allow person A, who has X*1.6 chance of infecting someone else, into a bar without a test, but do allow person B, who has X chance of infecting someone else? Is X chance not a problem, but X*1.6 is? And why is that? Just because the blessed action results in a chance of X? edit by the way the magical number for how effective the popular vaccines are against getting infected and…
It looks like your X*1.6 formula is made-up nonsense.
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This seems odd given that EU+CH did implement things properly wrt to cryto and trusted certs, but yes I guess there's a possibility that UK messed it up :)
Oh yeah, I don’t know exactly what they’re doing in UK. SMART Health Card is an open standard that requires using ES256 for signing (more here: https://spec.smarthealth.cards/ ). I assumed we were just talking about SHC, but UK could do something outside that standard. These all look the same, like a QR code, but the underlying structure could be different. I believe NY’s Excelsior Pass is also doing something slight…
In my experience only high end restaurants, union industries, and major public institutions are requiring either, but the number and type of venues is increasing.
Both types are publicly funded apps for both the QR pass and reader apps, and they have data privacy terms that I think most of the HN crowd would find palatable.
One can debate the effectiveness of the mandates in NY, but the state did play a reasonably proper role in providing the tech to facilitate it.
And yes, anyone can create and sign a SHC, but the VCI initiative is trying to create trust networks so that only certain signing keys may be considered valid. Not moving fast enough there, IMO.
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But those are largely proving your identity in a situation where you wish to identify yourself. Proving an unrelated fact about yourself solely because the government thinks so is a different thing.
Showing your ID to buy alcohol because the govenment has decided that under 18's cannot buy it. That's widely practiced and accepted without issue
The situation is likely different in the United States, but in Germany the youths solve this problem (under 16's/18's cannot buy alcohol) simply by the fact that always some friend has an older brother or sister.
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I take your argument as “covid will be around forever so we should act like it doesn’t exist” which is nonsensical to me. I’m not sure I can come up with a more charitable interpretation: sometimes things change and societies need to adapt.
There is nothing unique or special about covid that requires society to adapt to some dystopian "new normal". There is nothing but fear that stops society from returning back to what life was like in 2019. Many places are completely over this already.
For example?
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Only when they do something reckless, like look at their cellphones or sleep on rhe wheel. Or speed or blow a red light. Otherwise it’s civil penalties at most
So staying unvaccinated counts as reckless now?
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> Your medical history is not a "protected right." What are you talking about? It is under the 5h and 14th amendments and under similar rights in other jurisdictions. https://healthcare.uslegal.com/records/sources-of-protection...
Not in case of vaccinations. https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/school-immunization-exe... Medical data does have various protections in the US, but it’s far more limited than just blanket protection.
Immunization status is considered protected information according to the HIPAA and the ADA, and similar laws exist in other jurisdictions.
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/...
https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-covid-1...
https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-violation-to-ask-...
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Not in case of vaccinations. https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/school-immunization-exe... Medical data does have various protections in the US, but it’s far more limited than just blanket protection.
Your link doesn't say anything about the confidentiality of vaccine status. What are you even talking about? Immunization status is considered protected information according to the HIPAA and the ADA, and similar laws exist in other jurisdictions. https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/... https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-covid-1... https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-v…
The requirement to provide the information says otherwise.
Your sexual orientation is private information your employer can’t ask about, your vaccination status isn’t protected. Providing it can be required for employment.
Your third link even says: The EEOC confirmed “there’s no indication that there’s any federal law that would be violated by the employer asking this question.”. It also in most cases it can be a requirement for employment.