Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#291

Post by bregma » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 11:52 AM UTC

eurasiantiger wrote: post #258

hnuser123456 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, it "worked" by making me far more anxious of failure and the judgement of others. For 8 years. I had never previously had suicidal thoughts but I did less than a year after starting the "meds." Then I got in trouble for discussing suicide with another student. The whole situation is more hellishly dystopian than a grimdark fiction writer could imagine. It's no mystery why gen Z are often aggressive doomer…

Ritalin (methylphenidate) has an effect on one type of serotonin receptors. Most physicians are unaware of this, and, indeed, many think that methylphenidate is an amphetamine derivative, which is not the case. For many people, d-amphetamine or cannabis are better treatments with less side effects.

Do mean to imply that giving a 10-year-old a few hits from a bong as part of their morning and evening routine is advisable?

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#292

Post by bregma » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 11:56 AM UTC

eurasiantiger wrote: post #259

treeman79 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have 2 daughters on adhd medication. I held off a long time. But finally relented. Night and day difference. Rolling around on the floor endlessly to top of class. I haven’t found one my body can tolerate for long. But it was so weird to feel normal and not this horrific agony at trying to stay on task.

Try sativa-type cannabis with a vaporizer. Steer clear of indica-type.

Self-medication is a symptom, not a treatment.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#293

Post by m0llusk » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

SteveNuts wrote: post #162

m0llusk wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I traveled to the east coast near DC to help take care of my mother in her final years I talked with some people about my work with startups and the tech side projects I was developing and not only did they all think I was completely crazy but I got referred to a psychiatrist who was insistent that I should get started on antipsychotic medications right away.

Why would talking about tech make people think you're crazy?

A good job is one where you do the same thing in the same place with the same people year after year. Such a job should offer good benefits and be exceptionally stable.

In contrast working as a contractor, intentionally contributing to more than one job per year, taking a big salary hit to be on a cool project with cool people are all things that are completely and utterly insane. No reasonable people would do such a thing.

And one of my side project was a mini MPORG with no combat, just some puzzles. Obviously no one can make good money providing something like that, and turning such a thing into a good job opportunity is not possible.

Take your meds and get a steady job at a big company, or better yet the Federal Government.

It is kind of surprising to me that this is considered so odd. Have any long time tech workers here tried to explain how their work is organized to anyone who has worked for the federal government for a decade or two? Maybe I was just lucky.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#294

Post by bregma » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 12:10 PM UTC

vgel wrote: post #85

calvinmorrison wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1) fabricate an SMS Step 2) call police Step 3) enjoy Wow so easy to take down your political enemies huh

This happened to a friend of mine. "Friend" of theirs who was angry they didn't have a romantic interest in him called the police claiming they were suicidal. Police came, handcuffed them, verbally abused them, and dragged them to a hospital against their will even though they were clearly fine. They were forced to stay there for ~a day and then had no means to get home, thankfully a friend was able to pick them up a…

Why on Earth would the police be considered the appropriate service to deal with this situation? There is no overlap between paramilitary law enforcement and social services.

This is where calls for defunding the police come in. Take some of the money spent on using physical force on those whose thoughts do not conform to social norms and use it on a more appropriate agency. We no longer regularly physically restrain and torture the mentally ill in treatment settings. Why do we insist on funding other institutions to do so?

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#295

Post by bregma » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 12:14 PM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #254

quetzlbazaar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense when you consider that the therapist is there to help you but only in a way that does not challenge society. You are right to not feel completely safe to discuss it, unfortunately. I'm not sure why this taboo has evolved to be so strong, though I would guess it runs very deep psychologically in peoples' fear of death and also has something to do with the potential societal implications to any culture w…

The majority of people who attempt suicide do not then go on to commit suicide. Though ironically it does mean that a suicide attempt is the strongest predictor for death by suicide - but the rate is still 1% over the successive 12 month interval.[1] There is no strong evidence that suicidal people have a genuinely held belief that they wish to stop living, as opposed to a psychiatric episode that once passed does no…

100 percent of those who succeed on their first attempt do not go on to try suicide again.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#296

Post by refurb » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 12:36 PM UTC

coryrc wrote: post #94

WalterBright wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nursing home around here for dementia runs $10,000 per month.

Same time we hardly pay that per year for k-12. Shows how messed up our priorities are.

This is a stupid comment. You think a child is as much work as a psychotic elderly person.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#297

Post by jac241 » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 12:40 PM UTC

phreack wrote: post #204

jac241 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literal survivorship bias. I'm sure there are many people who are no longer alive because people did not take their texts seriously. I can easily imagine someone posting something just like this from the other side of the coin.

I can't possibly imagine how trauma, torture and debt can at all help with suicidal ideation. It sounds barbaric.

I don't think torture is a remotely accurate description of psychiatric care. How do you think they treat people with suicidal ideation? Tie them down with chains, stuff a sock in their mouth, beat them with whips, and inject them with deliriants? Seriously dude... You get a room that looks like a normal hospital room. You have the choice to take antidepressants or not. You do group and individual therapy for a couple days. If you're actually being held on a 72 hour hold, your time will be up and you will be free to go. Otherwise you may realize that being in the hospital is beneficial and you choose to stay.

I respond to these comments because I don't want people to hesitate to call for help if someone they know reaches out in need because of what a bunch of software engineers on HN who've never seen the inside of a hospital have to say about psychiatric care.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#298

Post by yissp » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 12:40 PM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #254

quetzlbazaar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense when you consider that the therapist is there to help you but only in a way that does not challenge society. You are right to not feel completely safe to discuss it, unfortunately. I'm not sure why this taboo has evolved to be so strong, though I would guess it runs very deep psychologically in peoples' fear of death and also has something to do with the potential societal implications to any culture w…

The majority of people who attempt suicide do not then go on to commit suicide. Though ironically it does mean that a suicide attempt is the strongest predictor for death by suicide - but the rate is still 1% over the successive 12 month interval.[1] There is no strong evidence that suicidal people have a genuinely held belief that they wish to stop living, as opposed to a psychiatric episode that once passed does no…

I wonder, though, if people who attempt and fail suicide are more likely to be the ones doing it impulsively after a psychiatric episode or other major emotional setback. If someone has thought it through and genuinely wants to die I suspect they would have a better chance of succeeding.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#299

Post by jac241 » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 12:52 PM UTC

rosywoozlechan wrote: post #239

jac241 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literal survivorship bias. I'm sure there are many people who are no longer alive because people did not take their texts seriously. I can easily imagine someone posting something just like this from the other side of the coin.

> I'm sure there are many people who are no longer alive because people did not take their texts seriously. So? If they wanted to die, that's what they wanted. Do we have to forcibly be required to live in a mental institution, pumped with drugs, for the benefit of others if we don't want to be here anymore?

No one is being forced to live in a mental institution because they sent someone texts one time that expressed suicidal ideation... There aren't enough psych beds to take care of the patients with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and suicidal intent with a plan to spare any to suicidal ideation patients. The OP spent one night in a psych emergency room, was not forced to take any medication, and was released.

People who are suicidal with a plan are not generally thinking clearly and are happy that they received care once they've been treated. We take people who are acutely intoxicated or unconscious to the hospital all the time and have no qualms about that.

Regarding being "pumped with drugs", I can only speak from experience rotating for 6 weeks at two different psych hospitals, but the only people who I saw forced to take medication were acutely psychotic, manic, or incredibly agitated. The schizophrenics that are picked up and brought to psychiatric hospitals generally are so psychotic that they would not be able to care for themselves - risk of harm to themselves. Same thing with acutely manic bipolar patients.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#300

Post by MertsA » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

squabble wrote: post #248

ipaddr wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believing unaccountable decisions placed in the hands of powerful doctors without recourse results in a professional suicide assessment is not what actually happens. You may be detained for no reason and have no recourse. They may pump drugs into you.

Scary. Any ideas of how to fix it?

Come up with a reasonable objective bar to pass before subjecting someone to confinement and medical treatment against their will. Right now police are all too willing to basically arrest someone off of some nebulous accusation. It should be treated no different than the standard of proof for an arrest and should face the same repercussions if done wrongly, both for police and an accuser.

Make it contingent on prompt medical evaluation. The current timeframes for involuntary commitment in certain states can leave people confined on a Friday afternoon and waiting to be evaluated until Monday morning. If it's urgent enough for involuntary confinement it's urgent enough to have a medical professional oncall for prompt evaluation.

The medical necessity of all involuntary medical treatment should have to be substantiated in front of a judge, even if the patient is released before statutory deadlines would have required a judge to approve continued involuntary commitment. The medical facility should have to explain their actions e.g. "On Feb 12th at 5:12AM patient started scratching the skin off of their left arm (Exhibit A) which necessitated the administration of 10 mg of Midazolam intramuscularly". Any medication should also be limited to the shortest duration feasible until a court order is issued, no depot injections of Haldol that will last a month.

No financial liability for the patient. The state doesn't have to foot the bill for all of it, you could mandate that insurance picks up the tab and leave the state to pay for only the uninsured. It's profoundly unjust to not only deprive someone their bodily autonomy but also saddle them with a mountain of debt with no recourse even if the involuntary commitment turned out to be unjustified. If it came out of municipal budgets maybe police departments would be more diligent about making sure that involuntary commitment was necessary instead of using it like a blunt tool to pawn off a tiresome person onto someone else.