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Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

nytimes.com

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Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#251

Post by quantumBerry »

novok wrote: post #114
BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

A lot of the behavior is driven by liability avoidance by doctors and mental health professionals. They do not want to be put in a long drawn out lawsuit, convicted or not by someone's family members because they didn't report and deal with someone who wanted to commit suicide. Remove that possibility and I think many doctors will stop doing that too. I know a few and they really, really, really hate how the system &…

Mandatory reporting seems to be a tool invented to keep abused children away from health and mental care workers, since parents who are worried about mandatory reporting will simply choose to not have their child treated.

Even for those who dearly love and care for their children, it's not a great feeling knowing that the slightest misinterpretation _requires_ that health / mental professional to refer you for prosecution. Instead of helpers, doctors and therapists have to be viewed as threats.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#252

Post by Haga »

If you have Alzheimer, you have the panic attacks of a person waking up in a foreign city among foreign people. Some have flashbacks to bad parts of their lives. Like getting raped in a war bad. They will throw things at you, and try to escape to get home to loved ones who are dead.

Yes, there are "lazy wardens" who drug entire floors when they are responsible for a nightshift with 300 people. Because society pays as little as possible for caring for the elderly.

Old age without family is a horror show, please at least drug me.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#253

Post by XorNot »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #240
tornato7 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something similar happened to a friend of mine and you can find plenty of stories on the internet - the way suicidal people are treated by the police is actually cruel and I can't imagine it helps anyone who is really feeling suicidal. My buddy got arrested, restrained to a hospital bed against his will, was given a cocktail of drugs, and had to stay there multiple days while getting a 'wellness check' every fifteen…

> while getting a 'wellness check' every fifteen minutes where a nurse shakes you awake. Actually, speaking of practices that are implemented for the convenience of administrators rather than the benefit of the patient... There is a popular belief that, if you have a head injury, you must stay awake because losing consciousness is dangerous. This is completely false. Your urge to sleep reflects the fact that that is…

"convenience" is a hell of a word to use here when the alternative is that medical professionals would have no way to know if your condition is worsening. Which is to say, if you want to sleep you can basically just go home for all the good they'll be able to do.

If it's inconvenient to you then you always have the option of checking out of the hospital whenever you want: you are always (except in psychiatric hold cases) able to sign a form saying you understand it may be Against Medical Advice and want to leave.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#254

Post by XorNot »

quetzlbazaar wrote: post #87
comrh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the two things every therapist will tell you that can force them to break the confidentiality. That it can take away your freedom, get you institutionalized, remove your ability to make your own medical decisions. It's important to take ideations seriously but as someone who struggled with that at points in my life I never felt completely safe about discuss it.

It makes sense when you consider that the therapist is there to help you but only in a way that does not challenge society. You are right to not feel completely safe to discuss it, unfortunately. I'm not sure why this taboo has evolved to be so strong, though I would guess it runs very deep psychologically in peoples' fear of death and also has something to do with the potential societal implications to any culture w…

The majority of people who attempt suicide do not then go on to commit suicide. Though ironically it does mean that a suicide attempt is the strongest predictor for death by suicide - but the rate is still 1% over the successive 12 month interval.[1]

There is no strong evidence that suicidal people have a genuinely held belief that they wish to stop living, as opposed to a psychiatric episode that once passed does not reflect their actual world view. This, in part reflected in the fact that one of the riskiest periods for clinically treated depression is shortly after anti-depressive medication is started, since depression manifests in large part as a lack of motivation, and the first effect of treatment tends to be to allow people enough action to actually attempt suicide. But again: this is episodic.

Note that this is entirely different to terminally ill people seeking euthansia, who amongst other things will pursue the goal for years if necessary i.e. it is a strongly held belief of a rational mind.

Though finally I'd note I don't know what you propose "challenging" society is meant to mean here. A therapist isn't there to sign off on you killing yourself, nor is that ever required. That option, especially in the US with the absolutely minimal checks on firearms ownership, is constantly available and has exactly one outcome. Dead people don't feel, or have to justify, anything to anyone.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#255

Post by _vbnz »

cascom wrote: post #73
pempem wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be remiss to not note most of the time in culture where multi generational family units are the norm, responsibility lands on women in the home or household support in extended families and the economy doesn't often require two incomes to be middle class.

This. But would also add 1) live in socialist countries that provide home care, or 2) or live in countries where there is extremely cheap labor due to endemic poverty (much of the third world), low rates of labor participation, or imported labor (HK/Singapore/Gulf states)

What socialist countries provide home care?

The system is a shambles everywhere.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#256

Post by hirako2000 »

kbenson wrote: post #155
hagibborim wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrasing of the poster you're responding to does not discount the experience you're describing. I don't see how they could be more careful.

> does not discount the experience you're describing It's not about saying it's not possible, it's about setting expectations, and scaring people away from a medication which may be helpful. >> Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it. That clearly states the reason it's administered is not primaril…

I'm sorry, we cannot easily back this up. It would take confession of an intent, which most prescribers aren't even aware of.

A single mom, exhausted with 2 part time jobs and 3 young kids put them in front of tele tubies all day long. Is that for her own benefit or for the benefits of the children? We don't even have clear evidence of the overall impart of such educating programs on child development. But we have to use common sense and agree it benefits carers if they want to get more time for themselves. It doesn't imply careless attitude, or consciousness of the motive, the kids appear to enjoy anyway. I think the comment was made out of common sense: attention deficit of just one student can cause serious classroom management issues, it isn't naive or prejudicial to point out what we don't hear very often: the prescription isn't for the child own' benefit.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#257

Post by VMG »

Bud wrote: post #210

Just another devastating indictment of our entire philosophy of how we handle health care in the US—to wit, cynically, and as a profit center—versus basically every single other advanced nation. How many horrifying examples do we need to see before we change it?

the psychiatric system is routinely used as tool to squash political dissent in many countries where it is not a "profit center"

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#258

Post by eurasiantiger »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #151
kbenson wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it. Not necessarily does not mean never, so be careful of a claim like that, and maybe back it up. I have a daughter, now an adult, which Ritalin and/or Adderall provided real benefit. The only thing in question was ho…

In my case, it "worked" by making me far more anxious of failure and the judgement of others. For 8 years. I had never previously had suicidal thoughts but I did less than a year after starting the "meds." Then I got in trouble for discussing suicide with another student. The whole situation is more hellishly dystopian than a grimdark fiction writer could imagine. It's no mystery why gen Z are often aggressive doomer…

Ritalin (methylphenidate) has an effect on one type of serotonin receptors. Most physicians are unaware of this, and, indeed, many think that methylphenidate is an amphetamine derivative, which is not the case.

For many people, d-amphetamine or cannabis are better treatments with less side effects.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#259

Post by eurasiantiger »

treeman79 wrote: post #189
kbenson wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it. Not necessarily does not mean never, so be careful of a claim like that, and maybe back it up. I have a daughter, now an adult, which Ritalin and/or Adderall provided real benefit. The only thing in question was ho…

Have 2 daughters on adhd medication. I held off a long time. But finally relented. Night and day difference. Rolling around on the floor endlessly to top of class. I haven’t found one my body can tolerate for long. But it was so weird to feel normal and not this horrific agony at trying to stay on task.

Try sativa-type cannabis with a vaporizer. Steer clear of indica-type.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#260

Post by anon9001 »

quetzlbazaar wrote: post #44
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all antipsychotics have horrible side effects. Let’s not lose nuance in response to the terrible unethical behavior depicted here. Modern antipsychotics often do good in helping people function when they wouldn’t otherwise be able to. The illnesses they treat are ones of terror and loneliness. I will note however that there’s no purpose in them here except to force submission, and that’s abuse and spits on the go…

I'm not aware of any that do not have horrible side effects. That is a value judgement I perhaps arrogantly think most people who have taken or been forced to take them (including myself) would agree with, maybe some people would not regard the side effects as all that bad. Certainly they can serve a good purpose and are a good tradeoff for many people who could not function as they'd like without them. The issue is…

I've heard seroquel is lovely for sleep and seems to be really well tolerated, but I haven't tried it myself yet.
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