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Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

nytimes.com

221–230 of 339 posts

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#221
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Soviet Russia, government officials would remove someone, and then claim suicide. In America, they first claim suicide (risk), then remove them.

There is a big difference between murdering someone and detaining someone for a day if a trained professional believes there is a high risk of suicide.

trained professional my ass. I have a disability, and I tell you what: Even the people "specialized" in certain disabilities usually have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. But they get good pay and are being treated like specialists by those which have even less of an idea... Outsiders usually have absolutely no idea whats going on.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#222
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the while I can drive 15 min and find thousands of obviously mentally ill people in need of involuntary mental health treatment (the type perhaps not even available at this point in the US) wandering around and the police cannot do anything about it because their only avenue for detaining them is to wait until they catch them committing a crime. And even then they are shortly released onto their own recognizance…

The reason they aren't in a psychiatric hospital is because the only reasons we can involuntarily commit someone is if they are a risk to themselves or others, and like stated elsewhere in the thread is generally reassessed by a judicial process every 72 hours depending on the state. What I'm reading in your post is that you're in favor of involuntarily holding more people which I find interesting because many others…

> Not trying to pick on your post or anything just thought it is a good example to say that it's maybe not as easy as it may seem to decide who gets admitted/committed, and the dichotomy in this thread shows that point.

Of course the topic of involuntary committal and people’s rights and prevention of abuse is extremely difficult, and that is why the pendulum swings back and forth. I just think it might be at or nearing the other end of the swing.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#223

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

I picked up my wife yesterday after a 72 hour hold at an in-patient center. I’m so glad that she legally had to be there. She tried to commit suicide Sunday night and spent Monday and Tuesday in the ER. It’s been a horrible week for all of us.

The behavioral health place she was at was not perfect, but she would not be where she is right now if it weren’t for her having to be there.

For years I have told myself that if I somehow become wealthy, I will spend my time and money improving mental health resources in my area. After hearing her stories about the place she was at (one of a couple hundred owned by a public company), I wish I had the resources to start a place that did everything right.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience. It’s really messed up.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#224
So in the USA today we have:

1) Both adults working long hours to move up the corporate ladder, neglecting their kids and their elderly parents in order to afford the rent etc.

2) Kids are stuck in public school as a glorified "day care center", and if they fidget or can't sit still they are diagnosed with ADHD and given amphetamines like adderal and ritalin. Boys are diagnosed with ADHD more than girls, for perhaps obvious reasons (https://theconversation.com/why-is-adhd-more-common-in-boys-...)

(However, we can improve this. Finland doesn't have nearly as much ADHD diagnoses, for instance, because the kids are able to have a lot of exercise during the day, rather than only being trained to be corporate drones https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37306818)

3) The elderly, as we can see here, are being drugged also

4) One in four middle aged women is on antidepressants (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/no...)

5) There is an opioid epidemic, primarily among men whose jobs have disappeared (https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/how-can-poli...)

The #4 and #5 have gotten worse since 2007, as many men started making less money, but women continue to want to be with men who make more than they do. Single, childless women make more than men, and sometimes choose to have a child and raise them as a single parent. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704421104575463...)

We could fix a lot of this by giving people a Universal Basic Income. Then, both men and women would have the power to negotiate shorter workweeks with their employers, spend more time with their children, and take care of their parents – things that are currently not remunerated by the market (although there are some government programs that pay family members for taking care of their own parents). They might contribute to open source software, do science, learn a musical instrument, practice their religion or learn something from a massive online course.

A high enough UBI would also allow us to abolish minimum wage laws, allowing companies to give free internships legally, so teenagers and new entrants can gain skills on the job and become competitive.

Finally, it would reduce the pay gap / penalties that a woman has for choosing to have children, because both parents would be able to afford to work shorter hours.

Rather than teaching women to "lean in" and work 10 hour days like many career-oriented men, we should be teaching both sexes to "lean out" and spend more time with their family. I would argue that women had a better work-life balance than men, until recently. At least during the pandemic, many have learned that they don't have to commute long miles just to sit in a chair. That's already good for the environment and gains people a few hours every day.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#225

unfortunately, there are some people who cannot function in the world without antipsychotics. a large number of people suffer from psychosis which in severe cases makes controlling their behavior, or even basic cause-and-effect thinking, impossible. the side effects of these drugs are terrible, but the alternative is worse. abusing these drugs as tools of control when they aren't needed is evil in itself. on top of t…

I still argue that antipsychotics are generally overused and that many cases that require them are either currently perpetuated or were in the past caused by technological or societal conditions, regardless 20% in these nursing homes is dramatic vs the overall 1.6%, down to .5% among older people. https://sci-hub.se/downloads/2020-10-18/9d/dennis2020.pdf

There are always causes behind the symptom of "psychosis". People commonly develop metabolic problems.

My "crazy" friend was doing okay, back in July [ref: my comment history]. I watched her open a bottle of sugar free electrolyte drink concentrate and drink a serving. Over the course of the next hour she got paranoid and flipped on me, "DON'T FOLLOW ME, I DON'T KNOW YOU", and disappeared.

Brains need glucose and fructose, b-vitamins, thyroid hormone, vitamin A, etc. Stressed brains use more glucose than brains at rest. Old people commonly lose their metabolisms.

I think what I observed was the fake-sugar in the sugar-free drink causing insulin release -> low blood sugar. The normal response to low blood sugar is cortisol release, but people who have a tendency to psychotic disorders can't make cortisol. It was fascinating to watch & reconstruct.

p.s. your sci-hub link is titled "Characteristics of U.S. adults taking prescription antipsychotic medications, National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey 2013–2018"

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#226
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that child with behavioral issues is sharing a classroom with 10 to 20 other children. It has never been fair to everyone else to put up with the issues on the one. In more brutal prior days, they'd be expelled and become the parent's problem. Now, they get medicated into compliance. It isn't fair to anyone, neither that child nor the others, that they get streamed in with everyone and everyone has to figure…

I would say drugging young kids with stimulants that have lifelong dependency implications as a kind of sacrifice for the greater good of the larger class is just morally reprehensible. Let's keep treatment focused on healing the individual, not drugging them into compliance. We are talking about kids here.

What do you mean with "lifelong dependency implications"? I take such medication and whenever I stop taking it for a time period, all of the side effects of the medication completely vanish. This type of medication is not addictive, actually it's a bit unpleasant, I don't think anyone would get addicted to it. And it's not like people with ADHD are rendered completely useless if they're not on their medication. We grow up like everyone else, and take on the responsibilities of becoming an adult. Granted, maybe a bit slower than everyone else but still.. there are no such dependency implications as you claim.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#227

Non-paywall link: http://web.archive.org/web/20210911161128/https://www.nytime... One nit: The article switches back and forth between incorrect schizophrenia diagnosis (11% of residents) and prescription antipsychotics (21% of residents), but those should be treated as separate topics. Antipsychotics can be beneficial in many conditions beyond schizophrenia, such as insomnia (at low doses), bipolar disorder, or depr…

I have the paperwork from my friend's 2015 mental hospitalization. The doctors both said, essentially, "patient expects us to believe that she was psychotic because she'd been drinking 2 bottles of liquor a day, and using cocaine. We know she's a chronic mental patient who needs these drugs because we got her stabilized in 2008 and 2010..."

Antipsychotics do not treat alcoholism or broken metabolisms (cocaine, genetics, etc). There are always better options.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Schools too. My mum spent two decades as a primary schol teacher, and it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are, at least in some cases, administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

I worked as a camp counselor- that’s a very popular situation for parents to have kids go on a medication vacation. The stories I could tell. After whatever insanity we’d be trying to figure out what in the hell was going on with the kid. Too often when we dug in it was a medication vacation - many for serious but some for less so issues. My takeaway - don’t just stop taking these even if you think it’s just for adul…

Isn't that child abuse or something? Dumping their kid into an isolated environment without their medication and without people's knowledge... Sounds like a horrible idea.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#229
post #50

> Antipsychotic drugs — which for decades have faced criticism as “chemical straitjackets” — are dangerous for older people with dementia, nearly doubling their chance of death from heart problems, infections, falls and other ailments. But understaffed nursing homes have often used the sedatives so they don’t have to hire more staff to handle residents. This problem will only get worse. A lot of it is driven by demog…

> A big squeeze is coming as the boomers enter extreme old age in droves while needing round-the-clock care, possibly for a decade or more, for geriatric conditions without cures.

Many old people have drinking problems. Someone I know personally has certainly contributed to his own deterioration.

> And then there's the problem of medical costs that relentlessly rise much faster than inflation, putting ever more pressure on nursing homes, families, and governments.

Prasadic medicine is medicine that concentrates wealth, but doesn't provide what the patients actually need: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21728864

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#230

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

>Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Schools too. My mum spent two decades as a primary schol teacher, and it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are, at least in some cases, administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

The other side of this is parents latching on to this reality and thinking their child cant possibly have any attention deficit issues

My brother got an adult diagnosis and would have benefitted a from a child diagnosis

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