Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#161

Post by onphonenow » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #113

BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

>Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Schools too. My mum spent two decades as a primary schol teacher, and it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are, at least in some cases, administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

I worked as a camp counselor- that’s a very popular situation for parents to have kids go on a medication vacation. The stories I could tell. After whatever insanity we’d be trying to figure out what in the hell was going on with the kid. Too often when we dug in it was a medication vacation - many for serious but some for less so issues.

My takeaway - don’t just stop taking these even if you think it’s just for adults benefit - there has to be a way to come off them more slowly

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#162

Post by SteveNuts » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 2:59 AM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #150

BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

When I traveled to the east coast near DC to help take care of my mother in her final years I talked with some people about my work with startups and the tech side projects I was developing and not only did they all think I was completely crazy but I got referred to a psychiatrist who was insistent that I should get started on antipsychotic medications right away.

Why would talking about tech make people think you're crazy?

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#163

Post by s5300 » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 2:59 AM UTC

aemreunal wrote: post #152

BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

Reminds me of Élan School [1] and how kids (under 18) can be abducted with the permission of their parents and put in confinement for dubious behavioral benefits, against their wishes – sometimes with the help of the judicial system. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lan_School

Kids can be forced into electric shock therapy because of their parents.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#164

Post by jac241 » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

simfree wrote: post #149

grapist420 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Benadryl and Haldol arguably don’t belong in the same sentence at all, considering their ridiculously different effects and profile. You’re right that they’re used though. Is there any reason Haldol should be used like that at all, beyond it already being available as a psych drug? And even if Benadryl isn’t as effective (I dunno) surely something that isn’t as bad in side effects could be found? Many instances of sa…

I only ever saw this B52 trifecta used when untrained nurses from other units had to do a shift staffing the psych ward. Thankfully that particular psych ward was closed down 2 years ago due to repeatedly assigning untrained nurses to work in that department. The regular nurses who had completed the state mandated training did not usin this combination of drugs on patients.

In a psych ED it was a lot more common to use 20mg ziprasidone and 2 mg lorazepam - "20 and 2" - for acutely agitated/psychotic patients. Before anyone passes judgement on doing that ask yourself if you've actually seen someone who is truly in psychosis or mania. I almost considered going into psychiatry because of how well antipsychotics and mood stabilizers work, particularly the monthly depot forms of antipsychotics, work and how they really do give patients their lives back.

I think psychiatrists have moved away from haloperidol and the internists or family doctors in nursing homes haven't caught up yet. Not that there's going to be much practical difference between Geodon and Haldol. Of course psych ED is a much different situation than on the floor of a nursing home where it might be more appropriate to use a low dose of Seroquel for delirious patients.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#165

Post by void_mint » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 3:04 AM UTC

_nalply wrote: post #159

comrh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the two things every therapist will tell you that can force them to break the confidentiality. That it can take away your freedom, get you institutionalized, remove your ability to make your own medical decisions. It's important to take ideations seriously but as someone who struggled with that at points in my life I never felt completely safe about discuss it.

What's the other thing besides mentioning suicide?

A serious intent to harm/kill others.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#166

Post by Clubber » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 3:06 AM UTC

tornato7 wrote: post #93

vgel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to a friend of mine. "Friend" of theirs who was angry they didn't have a romantic interest in him called the police claiming they were suicidal. Police came, handcuffed them, verbally abused them, and dragged them to a hospital against their will even though they were clearly fine. They were forced to stay there for ~a day and then had no means to get home, thankfully a friend was able to pick them up a…

Something similar happened to a friend of mine and you can find plenty of stories on the internet - the way suicidal people are treated by the police is actually cruel and I can't imagine it helps anyone who is really feeling suicidal. My buddy got arrested, restrained to a hospital bed against his will, was given a cocktail of drugs, and had to stay there multiple days while getting a 'wellness check' every fifteen…

>the way suicidal people are treated by the police is actually cruel

The way people are treated by the police is actually cruel. If you dug into it you would be ill.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#167

Post by jgeada » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #113

BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

>Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Schools too. My mum spent two decades as a primary schol teacher, and it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are, at least in some cases, administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

Because that child with behavioral issues is sharing a classroom with 10 to 20 other children. It has never been fair to everyone else to put up with the issues on the one.

In more brutal prior days, they'd be expelled and become the parent's problem. Now, they get medicated into compliance. It isn't fair to anyone, neither that child nor the others, that they get streamed in with everyone and everyone has to figure out how to cope.

I don't know what the right answer is, but pretending there isn't a problem in the first place is definitely not the beginning of an answer.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#168

Post by heavyset_go » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #124

heavyset_go wrote: post #2

Antipsychotics are not something to be handed out like candy. They have serious, sometimes permanent and sometimes fatal, side effects in anyone of any age. The article notes how that class of medication increases mortality in elderly people in particular. The fact that some people were prescribed haloperidol as the first line of treatment instead of a newer, safer antipsychotics also blows my mind. I'm terrified of…

Supposedly, a haloperidol and lorazepam mix is effective in sedating someone that's agitated just long enough that it becomes the next shift's problem. Pretty sure that's what's happening.

It's fast acting so it's a great choice for someone in the ER that's having a psychotic episode or is violent. Yours is the only explanation that makes sense to me.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#169

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #113

BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

>Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Schools too. My mum spent two decades as a primary schol teacher, and it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are, at least in some cases, administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

Wait, where on Earth are teachers free to dose students with “behavioral” drugs?

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#170

Post by void_mint » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

artificialLimbs wrote: post #120

nohuck13 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any states where people can be involuntarily committed indefinitely without judicial involvement? [edit responding to your edit] you were responding to the tone of my original comment, which I softened while you were responding, so sorry for the original combativeness. For what it's worth, holy crap does what you described suck. i would have done exactly what you did. no amount of knowing that it's not "ind…

Definitely can happen in Arkansas. BUT, it will not be indefinitely, it will be when the insurance money/mom and dad's bank account runs out.

Doesn't really seem like this is correct.

https://law.justia.com/codes/arkansas/2018/title-20/subtitle...

> (a) An individual with a behavioral health impairment who is admitted to a psychiatric emergency service under a crisis intervention protocol under this subchapter shall have a final disposition within a maximum of seventy-two (72) hours or be released from custody.

> (b) If the individual with a behavioral health impairment cannot be stabilized within seventy-two (72) hours of entering into a crisis intervention protocol, a participating partner may institute commitment proceedings as authorized under § 20-47-201 et seq.

> (c) An individual who has been released from custody and has chosen to stay at a crisis stabilization unit voluntarily under § 20-47-804(c) is not bound by the seventy-two-hour maximum time of detention under this section.

> (d) As part of the discharge process after the seventy-two-hour hold has expired and the individual is being released from custody, and subject to the consent of the individual no longer in custody, a crisis stabilization unit may provide the individual with a follow-up treatment plan and a request that the individual utilize the treatment plan, including subsequent appointments with a mental health professional.

Sounds like you're talking about (b), but I wouldn't really assume we're talking about children (as in America they don't really have rights).