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Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

nytimes.com

111–120 of 339 posts

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"detained...for a night" "freedoms can be taken away so dubiously even when not charged of a crime nor arrested in a system that exists outside the criminal system" I'm sorry this happened to you. Not defending it, but I don't think it's fair to say your experience represents some runaway extra-judicial outcome. For better or worse, in the US, a judge's approval is required to detain someone in a psychiatric facility…

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Are there any states where people can be involuntarily committed indefinitely without judicial involvement?

[edit responding to your edit] you were responding to the tone of my original comment, which I softened while you were responding, so sorry for the original combativeness. For what it's worth, holy crap does what you described suck. i would have done exactly what you did. no amount of knowing that it's not "indefinite" would have made it any better. the circularity of being falsely accused of something, and then having your (justifiable) non-compliance used to justify threats of further force, is blood boilingly unfair. sorry my apology sounded insincere. i sincerely feel that your experience should not be minimized.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#112
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to a friend of mine. "Friend" of theirs who was angry they didn't have a romantic interest in him called the police claiming they were suicidal. Police came, handcuffed them, verbally abused them, and dragged them to a hospital against their will even though they were clearly fine. They were forced to stay there for ~a day and then had no means to get home, thankfully a friend was able to pick them up a…

Something similar happened to a friend of mine and you can find plenty of stories on the internet - the way suicidal people are treated by the police is actually cruel and I can't imagine it helps anyone who is really feeling suicidal. My buddy got arrested, restrained to a hospital bed against his will, was given a cocktail of drugs, and had to stay there multiple days while getting a 'wellness check' every fifteen…

Wow, that sounds like a good way to make someone suicidal even if they weren't to begin with.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#113

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

>Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities.

Schools too. My mum spent two decades as a primary schol teacher, and it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are, at least in some cases, administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#114

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

A lot of the behavior is driven by liability avoidance by doctors and mental health professionals. They do not want to be put in a long drawn out lawsuit, convicted or not by someone's family members because they didn't report and deal with someone who wanted to commit suicide. Remove that possibility and I think many doctors will stop doing that too.

I know a few and they really, really, really hate how the system & law forces them into this corner, to the point where they actively try to avoid suicidal patients, because they don't want to report them. There is a similar dynamic with being a mandated reporter for children when giving them therapy.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#115

It is absolutely true, it happend to my grandmother. She was sedated because she had alheimzer and they didn’t want to deal with it. A tray of food would be brought in the morning and then taken back at night untouched, since she was sedated and they did not care that she didn’t eat for almost a week. Eventually she ended up in ER, had to be intubated and lost her ability to eat normally. That way she became bedbound…

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, the system knows just one way for the people who deviate from the normal - INCAPACITATE THEM.

I have an autistic child and I get so much pain thinking along the lines of what your grandmother went through.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#116
post #88
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is far beyond that. The doctors are brazenly prioritizing "not being bothered" over the health of their patients. Over prescription of antipsychotics is still common in US psychiatric facilities, and even if not there are alternatives, like very high dosages of SSRIs or other specific medications with complacency as a side effect.

If the alternatives are a doctor who cares and a doctor who doesn't then the choice is clear. But it is really difficult staying enthusiastic about treating someone, long term, who is never going to repay any extra efforts. Caring for the elderly/infirm is a really gruelling experience. It seems quite likely that there physically are not enough doctors who have the mental stamina to do that. The options the average p…

Also, these facilities optimize down their number of employees to practically guarantee that they're all overworked. It's impossible to care in an environment like that - if someone has spare time to do anything beyond the rubric, then that is an avenue for optimization. The only thing holding them back is state regulations, and that doesn't make for a good outcome.

This article strikes a chord with me. After a long hospital stay, I sent my father to inpatient rehab (aka "nursing home") for two weeks. Before he went, they told me I could do daily visits outside his window. After he was there, they made me schedule visits ahead of time with their "activities coordinator" who told me I was lucky to get twice a week. They didn't bother to make him do any of his therapy, rather they just let him lay in bed the whole time. They put him on a bunch of new meds to make their job easier, double dosed his biannual medication, etc. It was of course impossible to get anybody on the phone to talk about any of the details of his care (and not for a lack of trying). I only discovered the meds after the fact when I requested the records (which was also its own ordeal, and they're not even complete).

Administratively though, they were on the ball. The intake paperwork pushed me to sign him up for a long term stay (complete with "sign here" highlights on patently unnecessary forms; I rejected them), and they wasted no time switching his insurance billing address to their own address. His stay ended abruptly one (early) morning, when they punted him back to the hospital with a dubious story. I believe it was because they knew his Covid test was coming back positive but didn't officially "know" yet, and this way they could keep their numbers down.

After the second hospital stint, I just took him home despite the extreme burden. I hired some private helpers and between them and myself being extremely involved with the visiting nurses/rehab, he did much better. I would have paid for more bona fide sessions of rehab if I could have, but that's our inflexible system.

If you have a good relationship with your family and one of them is in the position of "needing" a nursing home, it behooves you to save them from these horrible institutions that are mainly geared to milk their insurance. Even at decent hospitals and not during Covid, if someone else is not there and continually advocating, their care will be overlooked.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Are there any states where people can be involuntarily committed indefinitely without judicial involvement? [edit responding to your edit] you were responding to the tone of my original comment, which I softened while you were responding, so sorry for the original combativeness. For what it's worth, holy crap does what you described suck. i would have done exactly what you did. no amount of knowing that it's not "ind…

Florida. I knew people in high school that were in there for weeks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Act

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#118
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>societal implications I'd expect the quality of a party you're allowed to leave to be higher than one you're not.

I would agree, hence the offensiveness of suicide to society in the large.

american society.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#119
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm terrified of growing old in this country. Have kids, raise them right, and you’ll be fine. It’s worked out pretty well for a couple thousand years.

Kids do not choose to be born. We can't expect them to serve us when we get old. They owe us nothing. We forced them into this world.

The cynicism in the other answers is appalling. Treating people like investments...

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Are there any states where people can be involuntarily committed indefinitely without judicial involvement? [edit responding to your edit] you were responding to the tone of my original comment, which I softened while you were responding, so sorry for the original combativeness. For what it's worth, holy crap does what you described suck. i would have done exactly what you did. no amount of knowing that it's not "ind…

Definitely can happen in Arkansas. BUT, it will not be indefinitely, it will be when the insurance money/mom and dad's bank account runs out.
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