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Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

nytimes.com

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Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#71

Post by quetzlbazaar »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #45
quetzlbazaar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution in my opinion to this problem is to permit euthanasia and for assisted suicide to become culturally accepted as an alternative to a drawn out death of dementia in a care home. The quality of life for many (not all) care home residents who are on these sorts of drug regimens is dire and in reality not entirely for their benefit, as is apparent to everyone including those responsible for oversight like Med…

So the solution to people being mistreated is to give them the option of dying instead?

You're right, it is not really a solution specifically to this problem, 'alternative' would have been better a better choice of words. Certainly I think it would be a good thing if people had the option of dying, even if they also had the option of going to a good care home - if only on the basis that dementia in and of itself may not be something an individual wants to experience even in the case where they are receiving good care.

We can think of care homes as like suppliers in a captive market, and we are the consumers - but it is even worse that a captive market in the sense that at least in a captive market you have the option not to buy, whereas we will be forced to. The existence of assisted dying as an option may even economically incentivize the care industry to improve.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#72

Post by anon9001 »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #65
quetzlbazaar wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide is offensive to society and many individuals on a deep level, especially of people who do not have a "good reason" (such as a terminal illness). While it may have progressed beyond being a criminal act, it is still taboo enough for alternative and equally good avenues to exist for society to deal with it, in this case, police and physicians empowered by law with the "duty of care" concept. This is of course b…

Step 1) fabricate an SMS Step 2) call police Step 3) enjoy Wow so easy to take down your political enemies huh

I think you're joking, but this is actually so true that you might be committing a crime by suggesting it.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#73

Post by cascom »

pempem wrote: post #22
garmaine wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live in multi-generational family units where the family shares responsibility for (and benefits from) their own elders.

It'd be remiss to not note most of the time in culture where multi generational family units are the norm, responsibility lands on women in the home or household support in extended families and the economy doesn't often require two incomes to be middle class.

This. But would also add 1) live in socialist countries that provide home care, or 2) or live in countries where there is extremely cheap labor due to endemic poverty (much of the third world), low rates of labor participation, or imported labor (HK/Singapore/Gulf states)

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#74

Post by quetzlbazaar »

koolba wrote: post #29
heavyset_go wrote: post #2

Antipsychotics are not something to be handed out like candy. They have serious, sometimes permanent and sometimes fatal, side effects in anyone of any age. The article notes how that class of medication increases mortality in elderly people in particular. The fact that some people were prescribed haloperidol as the first line of treatment instead of a newer, safer antipsychotics also blows my mind. I'm terrified of…

> I'm terrified of growing old in this country. Have kids, raise them right, and you’ll be fine. It’s worked out pretty well for a couple thousand years.

People did not live as long and would die of some cause such as illness long before they got to the age where they would develop things like dementia. Our situation with many people living to an advanced old age, an exceeding number by historical standards, is more recent (past 100 years or so).

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#75

Post by glangdale »

tiahura wrote: post #66
glangdale wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from experience, people are not nearly as enthusiastic to make the decision to kill themselves (as dementia sets in) as every likes to imagine that they will be themselves. I have seen multiple cases of people who - in healthy middle age - made bold statements ("just shoot me when I get like that"), who later went on to write documents insisting that "all measures be taken to preserve my life". So not even "…

“I don't know why this is, but dementia is often a continuum, and the decision making that people make seems to change in early dementia.“ Is it really demented thinking to want to avoid approaching death? I am there right now with my mom, and if she wants to press on, who am I to argue?

Agreed. I think people change their minds about how bad life would be if you can't function at a high level. A good deal of this is pride.

On Monday I will be an Intel Principal engineer again - but there's some Monday where I may need someone else's help to get the shit off my bum. From the perspective of that next Monday the indignity of the latter one is astonishing and humiliating, but there will be many intermediate stages where I get used to the idea that I am not what I was and to see that life is still quite pleasant.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#76

Post by throw18376 »

unfortunately, there are some people who cannot function in the world without antipsychotics. a large number of people suffer from psychosis which in severe cases makes controlling their behavior, or even basic cause-and-effect thinking, impossible. the side effects of these drugs are terrible, but the alternative is worse.

abusing these drugs as tools of control when they aren't needed is evil in itself.

on top of that it's just going to give more credibility to the anti-psychiatry crusaders who want to give people suffering from psychosis the "freedom" to destroy their lives and minds.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#77

Post by mcherm »

anon9001 wrote: post #72
calvinmorrison wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1) fabricate an SMS Step 2) call police Step 3) enjoy Wow so easy to take down your political enemies huh

I think you're joking, but this is actually so true that you might be committing a crime by suggesting it.

> this is actually so true that you might be committing a crime by suggesting it

Perhaps where you live. The legal system I live under has strong protections for freedom of speech that ensure that such a statement cannot be criminalized.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#78

Post by matheusmoreira »

heavyset_go wrote: post #2

Antipsychotics are not something to be handed out like candy. They have serious, sometimes permanent and sometimes fatal, side effects in anyone of any age. The article notes how that class of medication increases mortality in elderly people in particular. The fact that some people were prescribed haloperidol as the first line of treatment instead of a newer, safer antipsychotics also blows my mind. I'm terrified of…

Yeah, that's frightening. Everything I read is exactly the opposite of what my education taught me to do.

Antipsychotics are supposed to be the last resort in geriatric care due to obvious effects on patient quality of life and functionality. Not even sure they're approved by the american FDA for such uses. If they must be used, pretty much anything will be better than haloperidol.

Reminds me of lobotomies of old. "Make the patient easier to care for."

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#79

Post by User23 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #2

Antipsychotics are not something to be handed out like candy. They have serious, sometimes permanent and sometimes fatal, side effects in anyone of any age. The article notes how that class of medication increases mortality in elderly people in particular. The fact that some people were prescribed haloperidol as the first line of treatment instead of a newer, safer antipsychotics also blows my mind. I'm terrified of…

> I'm terrified of growing old in this country.

This is what convinced me to have as many children as possible. Hopefully at least one of them will care about me enough to not let this sort of thing happen to me.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#80

Post by colinmhayes »

wizwit999 wrote: post #9

One of the most disgusting parts of western culture is how they relegate their old to these nursing homes.

I find it pretty hard to see it that way. Most people aren't equipped to deal with the senile. Taking care of aging family members just causes stress for the caregivers and the old people can tell that they're a burden. Surrounding them with people in similar situations and trained caregivers plus the option to be drugged out of their misery seems like a much kinder thing to do.
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