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September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

911realtime.org

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Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#371

Post by schrodinger »

adwi wrote: post #173
542458 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Indian Point - containment buildings are pretty armoured by design. The Indian point containment vessel walls are several feet of high-grade steel reinforced concrete. You might be thinking of the skinny, low quality rebar used in common construction at this point - this isn’t that, the rebar here is 2.25 inches thick, made of good-quality steel, and spaced every fifteen inches or so. The containment building is…

> The containment building is also smaller than a 747, so you can’t transfer the entire plane’s energy to it like you could with a larger target like the towers. I know very little about physics and found this to be an unexpected point I’d like to understand more. Could you explain?

My read is that the sensitive area of the reactor is a lot smaller than the plane, so only part of the energy of the plane would hit it, the rest would go into the ground around it or whatever else the plane hits.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#372

Post by tommymachine »

orf wrote: post #359
tommymachine wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patriot Act is unconstitutional. You think I watch Faux News? By the way, the first article on your site has nothing to do with the title. You don't even mention lossless audio format in the entire body, just pure UX gripes with the app (design and bugs). You must be real smart though. Have you thought about applying to work at the White House?

No, they require masks to work there. I can’t abide by that, haven’t you heard that the co2 from your breath while wearing a mask gives your children autism? Infowars told me. I can’t handle that level of risk to my personal freedoms. What's next, background checks when buying automatic weapons??!!? Sorry I might be late replying, I’m going to get KFC without a mask for my elderly, uninsured grandparents who also bel…

They don't have a second amendment in Portugal. Do you ever wonder why the political culture of my country is so dominant over yours? Or has it always been obvious to you that defending liberty is inherently more powerful than bowing to tyranny? Or do you chock it up to superior geography alone?

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#373

Post by t-writescode »

Something really fascinating here is how each of the different news agencies handle the event.

CNN seems incredibly clinical, if a bit gore-wanting (asking about what's falling from the towers, if the plane is inside still, over and over again)

Fox News was instantly talking terrorism.

CBS was panic and raw emotion, followed by aggressive tracking of facts to try and figure out what they saw.

At least from the 9:02:57 timestamp (second plane hit), as I click through them.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#374

Post by emmelaich »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #224
photochemsyn wrote: post #62

When reviewing 9/11 attacks (likely the biggest and most disastrous intelligence failure in U.S. history, give or take Pearl Harbor), it's worth remembering that it could have been much worse. If the first plane had hit Indian Point nuclear reactor what, 30 miles from NYC and upwind? It's likely a Chernobyl/Fukushima disaster would have resulted with an exclusion zone well into NYC. That was reportedly part of the pl…

Never forget: the CIA, at the highest levels, knew that two of the 9/11 hijackers had multiple-entry visas to the US and were living in the country in the year before the attacks. They knew they were al-Qaeda, and they knew they were important enough to have been at a big AQ powwow in Kuala Lumpur in 2000. CIA management prevented this information from being disseminated by FBI agents posted inside "Alec Station", th…

There were numerous grounds for investigation beforehand. Example, had we not been so careful not to offend, Atta's attempt to get a $650k loan to make a crop duster might have aroused wider suspiction. When denied the loan ..

>He asked me what would prevent him from going behind my desk and cutting my throat, and making off with the millions of dollars of cash in that safe. And, I told him that, well I kind of laughed. I mean I didn't laugh at him. But I chuckled a little bit about it.

https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130304&page=1

Also good read: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investi...

Atta rapping about being an assassin.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#375

Post by maybelsyrup »

emmelaich wrote: post #368
maybelsyrup wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never forget: the CIA, at the highest levels, knew that two of the 9/11 hijackers had multiple-entry visas to the US and were living in the country in the year before the attacks. They knew they were al-Qaeda, and they knew they were important enough to have been at a big AQ powwow in Kuala Lumpur in 2000. CIA management prevented this information from being disseminated by FBI agents posted inside "Alec Station", th…

> CIA management prevented this information from being disseminated by FBI agents This was at least partly due to the Freeh / Reno policy of limiting info sharing between the agencies.

I mean, yes and no.

In the article I linked to, Clarke cites that information sharing in the IC was widespread, and you see in other sources that the idea of warring bureaucratic fiefdoms was in some cases very true (Freeh / Reno being great examples, as you say) and in other cases not true whatsoever. To me this means that it's tougher to generalize from a trend to any one case.

The Midhar and Hamzi visa and known entry into the US stuff doesn't look at all like simple tit-for-tat or institutional possessiveness, mainly because the FBI agents posted to the CIA precisely to "phone home" about AQ and Bin Laden had been doing so regularly for 18 months and had yet to be overruled on something they were going to share with the FBI. So why was that specific piece of info ordered not shared and then lied about?

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#376

Post by orf »

tommymachine wrote: post #372
orf wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they require masks to work there. I can’t abide by that, haven’t you heard that the co2 from your breath while wearing a mask gives your children autism? Infowars told me. I can’t handle that level of risk to my personal freedoms. What's next, background checks when buying automatic weapons??!!? Sorry I might be late replying, I’m going to get KFC without a mask for my elderly, uninsured grandparents who also bel…

They don't have a second amendment in Portugal. Do you ever wonder why the political culture of my country is so dominant over yours? Or has it always been obvious to you that defending liberty is inherently more powerful than bowing to tyranny? Or do you chock it up to superior geography alone?

I don't! we love the USA here, it's all we talk about. and always good things! trump ftw! we love to talk about the per-capita Covid cases and just love reading about people taking the pandemic seriously in the USA, it gives us lots of hope for your country. but over here we are very sad there is no second amendment, because without mass shootings how can you have a functioning democracy? i guess we will just toil under tyranny forever :(

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#377

Post by herewulf »

cronix wrote: post #354
atombender wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bin Laden is a member ... He is however estranged That's a curious way to phrase it, given that he died in 2011.

Saying "he died" is kind of a curious way to frame things, too. "Died" offers a completely different connotation than "killed."

One might frame it that he "died of a lead injection". Semantics.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#378

Post by cronix »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #356
cronix wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Binney (Tech Director/NSA) wasn't promoted. He quit just after 9/11 after He leaked that we had all of the intel to discover and piece together 9/11 in our systems, but the administration was prioritizing bulk collecting data over actually analyzing it. > In September 2002, he, along with J. Kirk Wiebe and Edward Loomis, asked the U.S. Defense Department Inspector General (DoD IG) to investigate the NSA for alle…

Thanks for posting this. Binney is really an unknown who deserves more recognition than we could probably give him -- at least as much as Snowden, if not more. I'm slightly more inclined to believe that the NSA's pre-9/11 behavior was actually "negligence" (as opposed to something else) than the CIA's, but it's still terrifying that these people missed what they missed. I've been pulled over by the cops on less than…

You're welcome. I'd highly recommend watching the interview I posted, as well as any interview you can find with him or Thomas Drake, who Binney mentions. Both of their handlings have been cited by Snowden as one of the main reasons why he leaked his info to the press vs "officially" going up the chain of command. I wouldn't want to be taking a shower in my house and have them pull the curtain open with a gun pointed to my head, either.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#379

Post by worik »

542458 wrote: post #295
bradknowles wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the towers were first built, one of the design questions was whether or not they could survive being hit by a 747 — on accident, presumably. So, that issue was taken into consideration. At the time of the attack, more modern aircraft were used, which had much thinner skins and were much more lightly constructed. Which means that they got much more shredded by the building construction as they passed through, and…

The 747s simulated were also near-empty and flying slow, as the assumption was an accidental collision from an airplane lost in fog trying to land. They never simulated one nearly full of fuel running full-tilt.

And they sere simulations.

Reality bites

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#380

Post by refenestrator »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #224
photochemsyn wrote: post #62

When reviewing 9/11 attacks (likely the biggest and most disastrous intelligence failure in U.S. history, give or take Pearl Harbor), it's worth remembering that it could have been much worse. If the first plane had hit Indian Point nuclear reactor what, 30 miles from NYC and upwind? It's likely a Chernobyl/Fukushima disaster would have resulted with an exclusion zone well into NYC. That was reportedly part of the pl…

Never forget: the CIA, at the highest levels, knew that two of the 9/11 hijackers had multiple-entry visas to the US and were living in the country in the year before the attacks. They knew they were al-Qaeda, and they knew they were important enough to have been at a big AQ powwow in Kuala Lumpur in 2000. CIA management prevented this information from being disseminated by FBI agents posted inside "Alec Station", th…

I'm with you on being outraged, but organizational dysfunction is the norm and not reigning it in is one way of "dropping the ball".

There wasn't, like, one single person who had all this information and he was personally stopped by the head of the CIA from telling the executive branch. It was a SNAFU of competing interests and stupid bureaucracy.

The fact that these people were promoted afterwards, however.. yeah, my blood boils.

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