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September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

911realtime.org

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Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#221

Post by Sebb767 »

mannanj wrote: post #149
HWR_14 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little disingenuous to use 20 years of history to say it's a more significant event and then using the follow on results. In another 18.5 years, people could be talking about how the pandemic triggered the second US Civil War, or led to a complete reimagination of US race relations, or ushered in a communist takeover or something.

How are you supposed to figure out if an event is significant or not without looking at its historical significance on the years to come?

I think this was exactly the point, you can't say one event was large due to the aftershock if the second event isn't even over (and therefore has its history yet to be written).

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#222

Post by anonfornoreason »

rebuilder wrote: post #121
telesilla wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's wait a while. The long term effects of the pandemic are yet to set in.

I see your point, but I have a hard time imagining how, 20 years down the line, we could point to the SARS-COV2 pandemic as a principal cause of historic change the way the 9/11 attacks were. Contributing factor? Sure, I'm sure it'll have all kinds of downstream effects.

Just imagine what a whole generation of kids will grow up to be like as a result of the social changes that have played out directly due to the pandemic. Definitely a large inflection point. Maybe the changes will be subtler but I would be shocked if we didn’t have noticeable, analyzable changes to the course of history based off that alone.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#223

Post by simonh »

tablespoon wrote: post #158
photochemsyn wrote: post #62

When reviewing 9/11 attacks (likely the biggest and most disastrous intelligence failure in U.S. history, give or take Pearl Harbor), it's worth remembering that it could have been much worse. If the first plane had hit Indian Point nuclear reactor what, 30 miles from NYC and upwind? It's likely a Chernobyl/Fukushima disaster would have resulted with an exclusion zone well into NYC. That was reportedly part of the pl…

> Additionally, the fact that members of the Saudi government aided and assisted the hijackers... Details? My understanding is a huge fraction of the Saudi population have jobs that amount to government sinecures (while immigrants do most of the real work). Are we talking about high-level members with real leadership positions, or some minor member of the royal family working in some ministry doing nothing and going…

Saudi politics and personal relationships are a mess. It is true that Bin Laden is a member of a very powerful family in Saudi and so obviously has a lot of personal connections there as do his close associates. He is however estranged from that family and has been for a very long time, but may have some in Saudi who have grievances against the house of Saud and are sympathetic to the jihadis.

Al Qaeda and many other jihadi outfits procure a lot of their funding from Islamic charities and schools (Madrassas) with complex and very opaque financial dealings. Also the Saudi government and individual Saudis donate to many Islamic charities, so its highly likely some of that money ends up with the jihadi's including Al Qaeda.

So yes there's almost certainly some truth to the allegations. Some powerful Saudis may secretly support them, some donate to charities and the money ends up with them, but no this is not official Saudi state sponsorship of Al Qaeda. In fact Al Qaeda consider the Saudi royal family and all of their associates to be apostates (essentially heretics) who can be killed summarily and they advocate for regime change and the establishment of a Caliphate.

Like I said, it's a real mess of family loyalties, rivalries, swinging political fortunes and opaque dealings. Game of Thrones has nothing on these people. Just look at what happened to Jamal Khashoggi.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#224

Post by maybelsyrup »

photochemsyn wrote: post #62

When reviewing 9/11 attacks (likely the biggest and most disastrous intelligence failure in U.S. history, give or take Pearl Harbor), it's worth remembering that it could have been much worse. If the first plane had hit Indian Point nuclear reactor what, 30 miles from NYC and upwind? It's likely a Chernobyl/Fukushima disaster would have resulted with an exclusion zone well into NYC. That was reportedly part of the pl…

Never forget: the CIA, at the highest levels, knew that two of the 9/11 hijackers had multiple-entry visas to the US and were living in the country in the year before the attacks. They knew they were al-Qaeda, and they knew they were important enough to have been at a big AQ powwow in Kuala Lumpur in 2000.

CIA management prevented this information from being disseminated by FBI agents posted inside "Alec Station", the CIA's Bin Laden group, several times, and they later lied about doing so. All this according to, among other extremely mainstream sources (in addition to the documentary record), Richard Clarke, who would know -- he was the Federal "Terrorism Czar" on 9/11 and has been fuming pissed about this since he found [1][2]. You don't need to be a whack job, a conspiracist, to be angry and mystified by this.

In many instances like this one, cursory investigation into claims of intelligence community "mistakes" or "incompetence" in these matters gives the lie to claims that these institutions somehow "dropped the ball" or "got it wrong" on 9/11, and are thus not to blame (either partly or fully) for the attacks. It's impossible to square such claims with a lot of the official paper trail. One can reasonably conclude that some of this stuff was not accidental. We hire these people to lie - why should we ever assume they're not?

(The best part? Many of the people involved in the events I describe were promoted in the years post-9/11!)

[1] https://abcnews.go.com/International/28-pages-questions-alle...

[2] https://www.doubleasteriskmedia.com/rich-blee-podcast

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#225

Post by Sebb767 »

ls612 wrote: post #211
rebuilder wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, but I have a hard time imagining how, 20 years down the line, we could point to the SARS-COV2 pandemic as a principal cause of historic change the way the 9/11 attacks were. Contributing factor? Sure, I'm sure it'll have all kinds of downstream effects.

Imagine masks, distancing restrictions, etc becoming the knee jerk response every year there’s a bad flu scare or something like the Ebola cases in 2014 happens. This pandemic will be remembered not for the virus but for the massive and permanent social changes it brought to the west.

Also: Home office, redistribution of wealth, climate impact and not to forget the financial impact. Plus possible long covid problems in a large share of people. There's a lot we will 'enjoy' for a long time.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#226

Post by yyyk »

vmception wrote: post #92
photochemsyn wrote: post #62

When reviewing 9/11 attacks (likely the biggest and most disastrous intelligence failure in U.S. history, give or take Pearl Harbor), it's worth remembering that it could have been much worse. If the first plane had hit Indian Point nuclear reactor what, 30 miles from NYC and upwind? It's likely a Chernobyl/Fukushima disaster would have resulted with an exclusion zone well into NYC. That was reportedly part of the pl…

We could have done regime change in Saudi Arabia and still had petrodollars Sometimes its useful to think inside the box But yeah current Saudi Arabia is a good deal for the US, hard to get others so heavily intertwined financially. Might as well not touch it.

>We could have done regime change in Saudi Arabia and still had petrodollars

Very unlikely. Any military involvement anywhere near Mecca and Medina is off the table barring being invited or some utterly insane scenario.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#227

Post by sfblah »

I've never seen this site before, but I noticed that it appears to be questioning the official timeline and story at various points. For example, it indicates that a janitor heard an explosion first from the basement, not from above. I noticed a few other elements like this as well.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#228

Post by yyyk »

hutzlibu wrote: post #219
yyyk wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>do not forget the >360 000 dead civilians the war on terror has cost so far. Most of them killed by the same people the US targeted. Funny how all responsibility is always given to the West even when the people doing the killing are their enemies. >the taliban back then only refused to hand over Bin Laden without evidence presented Also after he publicly confessed, not to mention his previous crimes. Their refusal h…

"Also after he publicly confessed, not to mention his previous crimes. Their refusal had nothing to do with 'evidence'. " Source? Bin Laden initially declined responsibility, saying his hosts the taliban, would not allow such a operation. (surely not out of being nice, but because of wanting to keep the power) And later (after he confessed) the US was on full war with the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden not with them any…

>And later (after he confessed) the US was on full war with the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden not with them anymore.

I'm referring to that, not to his preinasvion evasion.

The Taliban didn't even cut relations with him or his associates after he confessed, and they were not without influence in AfPak.

Surely the Taliban should have been very upset with their 'guests' for getting them involved in Al-Qaeda's war, right? Unless the Taliban knew from the start... Obviously they did, since this wasn't Al-Qaeda's first attack against America.

As I wrote, there's little reason to give any credence to their not knowing, and even if we did, there were plenty of other things they should have given up Bin Laden for.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#229

Post by tyingq »

yyyk wrote: post #209
hutzlibu wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And maybe do not forget the >360 000 dead civilians the war on terror has cost so far. Innocent bystanders, whose relatives now might feel a urge to join the real terrorists as the only means for them to get revenge, too. Endless cycle. "War on terror" is just a ugly concept and not one that seem to work. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/911-civili... Oh and something that does not get too much atten…

>do not forget the >360 000 dead civilians the war on terror has cost so far. Most of them killed by the same people the US targeted. Funny how all responsibility is always given to the West even when the people doing the killing are their enemies. >the taliban back then only refused to hand over Bin Laden without evidence presented Also after he publicly confessed, not to mention his previous crimes. Their refusal h…

>Most of them killed by the same people the US targeted.

That just sounds crazy given that our first retaliation for 9/11 was Iraq. Which had nothing to do with 9/11, and further...no "WMDs".

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#230

Post by radycov »

Cool how about a tribute to the family of 10 killed (7 children) by a reaper drone along with every one of hthe 700,000 afghans killed by the petrdollar military industrial complex, or is their skin too dark to be included in the narrative?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-...

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