Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

961–970 of 1001 posts

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#961

Post by squabble »

caeril wrote: post #906
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > the pro-choice people seem to overlap heavily with the pro-mandate people. I don't think you can logically hold both of those positions Well, not from the "governments are either allowed or not allowed to tell people to do things" angle. From the "what do medical experts suggest we do to minimize unnecessary death and suffering" point of view it's possible to be consistently on the same side though.

It's definitely not consistent from the bodily autonomy angle, though. And that's a pretty major angle, considering how deeply we're connected with our bodies. Personally, I think anybody who advocates for abrogation of bodily autonomy is an absolute monster, whether an anti-abortionist, a pro-vaccine-mandateist, or an anti-recreational-druggist. Our bodies are all we have. This is the most important freedom we hold.…

How late in a pregnancy do you think it's ok to have an abortion?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#962

Post by pseudalopex »

a_conservative wrote: post #892
namlem wrote: post #887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are these vaccines not vaccines? Because they are based on mRNA rather than inactive viruses or virus fragments?

I'm not claiming that they aren't vaccines. Words change definition to follow usage. However, Merriam-Webster literally changed their definition of vaccine in the past 6 months or so. [0][1] My argument is that by including these injections under the term vaccine, they are getting a halo effect from past vaccines that isn't warranted. Questioning vaccines is the lowest of the low, almost unthinkable, but these "vacci…

Their old definition didn't match usage. Diphtheria and tetanus vaccines use inactivated toxins for example. And the same dictionary said viruses are usually regarded as nonliving extremely complex molecules.[1]

I checked 2 dictionaries from before 2020. Neither said a vaccine had to be made from certain things.

[1] http://web.archive.org/web/20190118214500/https://www.merria...

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#963

Post by edanm »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #953
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because obesity will kill them. That's the message that's not being said in a COVID context. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in America, and obesity is the #1 risk factor for it. This message has been clear and emphasized since the 1970s. Despite messaging, obesity has gotten worse, not better. You are wrong and oversimplifying the problem if you think COVID can be solved by telling people to lose weight…

That message can be reinforced in the context of COVID, given obesity is the leading preventable risk factor for COVID. Instead, a huge number of people are laser focused on rationalizing the imposition of mandates, especially on extremely low-risk group, even children.

It's really not an either-or situation. You can encourage people to be generally healthier, and also encourage them to get vaccinated (or force them).

And if you compare the two, the vaccine is much closer to a magic cure - it's very dependable and takes "1 month" to work (assuming a two shot vaccine). Whereas encouraging people to be less obese is both incredibly hard (as decades of campaigns prove), and even in the best case scenario, would take a long time for most people.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#964

Post by jasonlaramburu »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #957
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more unvaccinated people there are, the more cases of severe covid there will be. This puts tremendous strain on the hospital system, and if they’re uninsured it means the taxpayers are covering the cost of their treatment. Rampant spread also promotes the emergence of new variants.It’s not only a personal decision— declining the shot negatively impacts your community, workplace and the country as a whole.

We have never used this justification to institute invasive laws to prohibit habits that lead to obesity, or to prohibit drug-use or alcohol consumption for that matter. And such laws would always come from the social conservative right, if they were ever instituted, not the people advocating vaccine mandates. Now socialization of medical expenses is being used to rationalize institutionalized discrimination against…

> We have never used this justification to institute invasive laws to prohibit habits that lead to obesity, or to prohibit drug-use or alcohol consumption for that matter.

Correct, these things are not contagious to others.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#965

Post by jasonlaramburu »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #954
mbfg wrote: post #943

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if i'm fat, my fat won't jump onto you and kill you.

COVID vaccines don't stop transmission, so don't protect other people.

> COVID vaccines don't stop transmission, so don't protect other people.

They reduce transmission.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#966

Post by tacitusarc »

sterlind wrote: post #935
coryfklein wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you advocate for government mandates on everyone else for your sole benefit? Or do you feel that you're a representative sample of the high-risk group?

I actually don't think I'm a representative sample. my comorbidities are unusual and I'm probably not at significantly higher risk for covid complications. I was just taking issue with the parent's implication that most health problems can be solved with diet and exercise. a lot of us struggle hard to stay healthy but our bodies betray us.

Undoubtedly it cannot be in your case, but exceptions are not so useful when talking about mediocristan populations

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#967

Post by disneygibson »

jasonlaramburu wrote: post #964
CryptoPunk wrote: post #957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have never used this justification to institute invasive laws to prohibit habits that lead to obesity, or to prohibit drug-use or alcohol consumption for that matter. And such laws would always come from the social conservative right, if they were ever instituted, not the people advocating vaccine mandates. Now socialization of medical expenses is being used to rationalize institutionalized discrimination against…

> We have never used this justification to institute invasive laws to prohibit habits that lead to obesity, or to prohibit drug-use or alcohol consumption for that matter. Correct, these things are not contagious to others.

There is significant research indicating that these things are socially contagious.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#968

Post by tacitusarc »

Based on that study from Israel, it seems like the highest level of protection is being vaccinated + natural immunity, followed by natural immunity by itself, then vaccination itself. But natural immunity is not considered an alternative in this mandate, which makes it feel highly political and not science based.

I can completely understand the risk analysis of someone who has already had Covid not wanting to get the vaccine based on the available data.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#969

Post by pbaka »

kbos87 wrote: post #721
disneygibson wrote: post #353

Inevitable outcome in a society that is terrified of everything. And to think that our ancestors sailed across the oceans into the unknown and faced diseases, war, famine, and worse. Now we are instituting a surveillance state in the name of a fairly bad flu virus with a 99% survival rate. We really need a new frontier. Hopefully space travel happens before human beings become completely domesticated.

I think it’s perfectly acceptable to be afraid of a virus that has killed 700,000 people in the United States and leaves ~30% with long term side effects and sometimes serious, permanent disability.

Where did you get that second number from ?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#970

Post by CryptoPunk »

dimator wrote: post #933
coryfklein wrote: post #897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Letting covid 'rip' through the remaining unvaccinated population Aren't unvaccinated individuals the ones who made this decision? You may disagree with the conclusion of their dubious risk analyses, but if you choose not to get vaccinated then all bets are off. Or is it that the risk that the unvaccinated pose to the vaccinated are so high that they warrant strong arm solutions?

> Aren't unvaccinated individuals the ones who made this decision? You may disagree with the conclusion of their dubious risk analyses, but if you choose not to get vaccinated then all bets are off. This is the crux of it. They've made the decision, but when they fill up ICU beds and prevent sick or injured people from getting the quality of care that hospitals can provide, then their decision affects others (and thi…

If that's really the issue (it's not), then this can be addressed far more directly, by penalizing the unvaccinated when allocating ICU beds during shortages. But please be consistent and also penalize those who deliberately engage in other actions that put them at risk of needing medical care, like the obese, or those who abuse drugs and alcohol.

What bothers me is the inconsistency. It's opportunistically seizing on the burden that choosing to not get vaccinated places on medical resources, in a way that the typical vaccine mandate supporter would never dream of doing with other high-risk behavior (e.g. men who engage in extensive high-risk intercourse with other men, making them 100X more likely to contract many STDs, including HIV). The political left's backing of the vaccine mandate is thoroughly unprincipled.

Post reply on HN