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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#931

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

coryfklein wrote: post #897
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be consensus that the delta wave won't end until the US reaches at least 85% herd immunity (either through vaccination or infection). It's clear from polling that there is a large enough minority of American adults who won't take the vaccine voluntarily (under any circumstances) to achieve this level of immunity, so that leaves infection. Letting covid 'rip' through the remaining unvaccinated populatio…

> Letting covid 'rip' through the remaining unvaccinated population Aren't unvaccinated individuals the ones who made this decision? You may disagree with the conclusion of their dubious risk analyses, but if you choose not to get vaccinated then all bets are off. Or is it that the risk that the unvaccinated pose to the vaccinated are so high that they warrant strong arm solutions?

> Aren't unvaccinated individuals the ones who made this decision?

Yes. And personally, as callous as this is, I give zero shits about COVID deaths of people who choose to not vaccinate, though I feel terrible for their family members that got vaccinated and couldn't convince them to vaccinate because right-wing media has poisoned their minds.

> Or is it that the risk that the unvaccinated pose to the vaccinated are so high that they warrant strong arm solutions?

This question is highly subjective.

The vaccines are very effective at preventing spread, hospitalization, and death, but not 100%. Look at the statistics coming from any major hospital, and you'll see the trend that around 95% of the people hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated.

The more people are vaccinated, the slower the spread, and the lower total number of breakthrough infections and breakthrough disease (Note: There's a difference between the two!).

Back to your question of if the risk is so high to warrant strong-arm solutions...Currently, I'd say no. But how long until Delta evolves into an even worse form that the current vaccines do nothing for?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#932

Post by kazoomonger »

caeril wrote: post #906
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > the pro-choice people seem to overlap heavily with the pro-mandate people. I don't think you can logically hold both of those positions Well, not from the "governments are either allowed or not allowed to tell people to do things" angle. From the "what do medical experts suggest we do to minimize unnecessary death and suffering" point of view it's possible to be consistently on the same side though.

It's definitely not consistent from the bodily autonomy angle, though. And that's a pretty major angle, considering how deeply we're connected with our bodies. Personally, I think anybody who advocates for abrogation of bodily autonomy is an absolute monster, whether an anti-abortionist, a pro-vaccine-mandateist, or an anti-recreational-druggist. Our bodies are all we have. This is the most important freedom we hold.…

If sucking cock gave you antibodies that helped protect you and your community from a pandemic, you'd have a valid comparison.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#933

Post by dimator »

coryfklein wrote: post #897
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be consensus that the delta wave won't end until the US reaches at least 85% herd immunity (either through vaccination or infection). It's clear from polling that there is a large enough minority of American adults who won't take the vaccine voluntarily (under any circumstances) to achieve this level of immunity, so that leaves infection. Letting covid 'rip' through the remaining unvaccinated populatio…

> Letting covid 'rip' through the remaining unvaccinated population Aren't unvaccinated individuals the ones who made this decision? You may disagree with the conclusion of their dubious risk analyses, but if you choose not to get vaccinated then all bets are off. Or is it that the risk that the unvaccinated pose to the vaccinated are so high that they warrant strong arm solutions?

> Aren't unvaccinated individuals the ones who made this decision? You may disagree with the conclusion of their dubious risk analyses, but if you choose not to get vaccinated then all bets are off.

This is the crux of it. They've made the decision, but when they fill up ICU beds and prevent sick or injured people from getting the quality of care that hospitals can provide, then their decision affects others (and this is not a hypothetical, it is happening daily).

If unvaccinated people agree to sit home and not go into a hospital when they can't breathe, that would demonstrate that they're living with the consequences of their decision.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#934

Post by virtuallynathan »

Madmallard wrote: post #776
robmccoll wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah what's next? Making other behaviors that have a small but established likelihood of endangering the lives of others or their property illegal at little to no cost to the liberty of an individual? Pretty soon I won't be able to drive my car under the influence, or without proper insurance, or while not wearing a seatbelt, or I won't be able to discharge my firearms in my 0.2 acre backyard in a suburban area. 650,…

“ 650,000 people have died and that's with taking some pretty extreme precautions (for what we consider extreme anyway). It's not just the old or the infirm. Healthy people in their 20s and 30s. Toddlers. We have gone to war over much less.” https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... Given that 10% of the population has been exposed at this point that makes likelihood of dying in the young age ra…

It's well over 10% who have had covid, probably quite a bit north of 30%.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#935

Post by sterlind »

coryfklein wrote: post #899
sterlind wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't have a COVID problem, we have a health problem. Has the government been encouraging people to take vitamin D, get fresh air, exercise, and get to a healthy weight? The rhetoric has been sit down and get the jab. I'm disabled and it's not my fault. I'm a healthy weight, I have a vegetarian diet high in vegetables, I do my rehab exercises every day and see the doctor frequently. And yet my condition is progr…

Would you advocate for government mandates on everyone else for your sole benefit? Or do you feel that you're a representative sample of the high-risk group?

I actually don't think I'm a representative sample. my comorbidities are unusual and I'm probably not at significantly higher risk for covid complications. I was just taking issue with the parent's implication that most health problems can be solved with diet and exercise. a lot of us struggle hard to stay healthy but our bodies betray us.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#936

Post by angelzen »

slavboj wrote: post #883
rualca wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are we really going to bother digging up the copious video evidence this is a lie? It seems you're either a bit confused or you didn't bothered to even watch the very same video you posted. I watched the video and nowhere in it does anyone promise anything about infections magically go away. In fact, the infection disease specialist in the video says quite clearly that the observed reduction in spread was around 60…

Did you read the headline? "No one ever claimed this" except for literally thousands of journalists and government spokesmodels.

Text: Most elephants are grey. Sometimes they can be white. They are definitely not black.

Headline: The Science is in: Elephants are White

Pushback: No, elephants are not white.

Twitter: NO ONE EVER CLAIMED ELEPHANTS ARE WHITE. or STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION THAT ELEPHANTS ARE BLACK.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#937

Post by TOMDM »

iammisc wrote: post #914
TOMDM wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you mean a very literal "at our expense" as in dollars paid for a highly effective vaccine, are you implying that the vaccine has been a net negative?

When it first came out, the data made the vax an obviously net positive. Given what we now know about cases amongst the vaccinated and how they can spread it... It's no longer an obvious positive. The vax has made covid more pervasive because of bad data at the beginning.

I could maybe buy people being lax about masks and social distancing because of the vaccine, but surely you don't think the vaccine itself has made the virus more pervasive?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#938

Post by dmitrygr »

colinmhayes wrote: post #437
dmitrygr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. My vaccination status is my own damn business. I am prepared to be fired over this, if needed.

except it's not really since you can kill other people if you're not vaccinated.

Yup. And as a sane person I understand that and long since took appropriate actions. And that is my own damn business and I owe you no explanations or medical records!

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#939

Post by maceurt »

drewg123 wrote: post #426

For those of you arguing against getting vaccinated, please go volunteer at a local hospital. I'm currently in the hospital in the "red" part of my purple state. I had an acute appendicitis, and had to wait in a temporary, crowded, understaffed holding area in the ER for over 18 hours before getting admitted for treatment. My roommate in the hospital has an infected foot, and waited over 24 hours to be admitted. He m…

The reason I am annoyed about a vaccine mandate is that I take care of my health. I eat healthy, exercise regularly, don't do drink or take any illegal drugs, and have been consistently taking vitamin D everyday for the last 3+ years.

These are all things that everybody should be encouraged to do, but the government has not been putting in almost any concentrated effort to encourage people to do these things at all. Then when Covid starts spreading and mostly killing unhealthy people I should be the one risking my health, taking a vaccine that is way less tested than any other FDA approved vaccine, to help the people who practice unhealthy lives and are the ones most at risk of dying from Covid?

I am 19 years old and had to stay inside for the last 1.5 years for a virus that I am not afraid of and almost certainly would not kill me if I were to contract it. My mental health has been deteriorating for the whole quarantine, years of my youth are being taken away because of something that simply doesn't affect me. Unhealthy old people have screwed my life up and taken years away from me so if they expect me to take a knee to help them then they can go to hell. You lock people in doors for years of their life make them wear masks everywhere in public and now are gonna make me stick a needle up my arm so I can keep my job? Go to hell, I rather die than be yanked around like this to appease people who don't care about me and a government who treats me like shit and insults me. And their is still no timeframe for when this bullshit will be over.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#940

Post by xupybd »

op00to wrote: post #783
xupybd wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hard hat isn't a medical procedure. Some die from this vaccine. I weighed up the options and decided it was by far the lower risk option. I think people need to be free to make that choice. Freedom is so valuable.

Great point, thank you for letting me know a hard hat isn't a medical procedure. If my aunt had wheels, she'd be a tea cart. I'm sure I can find someone who died BECAUSE they were wearing protective head PPE - a hat strap got caught and strangled them, whatever. The more important point that you ignore is people are horrible at weighing relative risk. You're obviously intelligent and aware of the biases inherent in j…

I don't think people shouldn't be educated and encouraged to get this vaccine. I don't think the government should stay out of that.

I believe these are coercive tactics and the government should avoid coercion at all costs.

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