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Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

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Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#251

Reading this, I cannot help but imagine someone at Apple thinking to themselves "I wish we had granted Epic an exemption like we did with Netflix". The court proceedings and the documents that they were required to disclose were surely bad for PR and now it looks like they won't even keep the monetary benefits.

Uh, didn't it always seem like Epic was itching for a fight no matter what happened? That's the impression I got from the case but I also didn't follow it super closely.

It did, but Apple might have been able to prevent Epic from having standing to sue by giving them an exception.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#252
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It then leaves a bigger argument for reversal on appeal. The argument is not "bigger". It is exactly the same. If we're not a monopoly (Apple), how can we be anti-competitive?

There are laws against anticompetitive behaviour in California. Those apply to all companies, irrespective of monopoly status.

Ok? That doesnt explain what the phrase :

> (the judgement) then leaves a bigger argument for reversal on appeal.

is supposed to mean by "bigger argument".

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#253
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ruling could cost them billions of dollars in revenue. It's absolutely worth appealing. Even if they lose in the long run, they'll make a few billion more in the mean time.

how many billions? It seems their max app gaming revenue lost would be 64 * 70% * 30% = 13.4B for 2021 , but it's probably a lot smaller due to special deals, and also this would assume they would lose ALL the revenue. In reality they'd lose about,maybe ~$3B ? The alternative would alienate some of their best developers -- who knows, maybe they'd leave?

where will they leave? 50% of market is Apple's and majority of people play games on their mobile phones and not on dedicated setups.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#254
post #206

> “The court cannot ultimately conclude that apple is a monopolist under either federal or state antitrust laws,” she writes in the ruling. “Nonetheless, the trial did show that apple is engaging in anti-competitive conduct under California’s competition laws.” It's nice to see that you don't have to be a monopolist to be legally barred from anti-competitive behaviour. I hope this puts a permanent stop to all the thr…

> It's nice to see that you don't have to be a monopolist to be legally barred from anti-competitive behaviour Can someone ELI5 why Apple is considered to be anti-competitive for not dedicating resources to assisting another business in creating a competitor to a market for a platform they and they alone created? If Epic wants to have their game on a phone, it makes sense they abide by the rules enforced by the compa…

Well, it is kind of a naive perspective. You can't expect every competitor to reinvent the universe in order to be able to compete.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#255

Think Apple has already seen the writing on the wall - both S. Korea & the US are now probably going to push back against the IAP restrictions, and they can / should do a couple of things, which might actually increase revenue. 1. Cut down the IAP commission to 15% for everyone. 2. Cut down the commission to 5% for those who pay for a Business Account, say at $5,000 a year. The thing is no customer wants to use any c…

[deleted]

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#256
post #249

Think Apple has already seen the writing on the wall - both S. Korea & the US are now probably going to push back against the IAP restrictions, and they can / should do a couple of things, which might actually increase revenue. 1. Cut down the IAP commission to 15% for everyone. 2. Cut down the commission to 5% for those who pay for a Business Account, say at $5,000 a year. The thing is no customer wants to use any c…

Why do you think people would implement their own IAP? It would most likely be a few competing platforms like Shopify for web purchases.

Exactly. Stripe and PayPal could be integrated easily.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik they cannot ignore a ruling. And they don't need 30% fees for maintaining IOS ecosystem - when you buy an apple phone for $1000, you pay Apple enough for it to maintain its AppStore. Also they earn money from AppStore advertising (which apps out of the millions should the small screen show); so maintaining AppStore should not be a problem. I don't know about the bad-actors part though.

> they cannot ignore a ruling Why not?

Uh, the state has a monopoly on violence? Apple doesn’t have a private army to protect their executives from going to prison, so……

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#258
post #249

Think Apple has already seen the writing on the wall - both S. Korea & the US are now probably going to push back against the IAP restrictions, and they can / should do a couple of things, which might actually increase revenue. 1. Cut down the IAP commission to 15% for everyone. 2. Cut down the commission to 5% for those who pay for a Business Account, say at $5,000 a year. The thing is no customer wants to use any c…

Why do you think people would implement their own IAP? It would most likely be a few competing platforms like Shopify for web purchases.

For the money

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#259
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes exactly. It's not the bundling that's the problem, it's preventing free use of the hardware.

Is that actually an issue though, given that Apple has never advertised their hardware as being "free-use"?

In my opinion it should be, it should be an abuse of Apple's monopoly on the hardware (including patents preventing someone else from building an equivalent device) to create a monopoly on the software.

Legally I don't think it is today though, and my understanding of the law is that it's precisely because they haven't advertised their hardware as open as you say.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we need a new word for this. What you've described is a cartel [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel ]. To the extent that they restrain trade, prohibit competition, or artificially increase costs on consumers, cartels are already illegal in the US.

Is "cartel" fitting? These companies aren't always associated. (Though recent leaks do seem to indicate behind-doors conversations are taking place.) Some of the prevailing themes: - These companies are after attention across any vertical a person may touch - These companies build platforms that scope creep into other platforms and verticals. They connect and entrench them. - They make it impossible to access consume…

What you're describing looks more like the supermarket shelves. Some 80% of products in the cereal aisle are owned by three companies. Nobody really cares, but the switching costs to get a cereal outside that controlled space turn out to be pretty high (just try it with a family with kids).

If you want to make your own cereal, good luck; the supermarkets trust the Big Three and are pretty uninterested in flighting something new; shelf space is finite and people don't trust off-brand cereals.

The cereals care more about attention than price-competition. They know it's all the same crap; they want you to care more about whether there's a bear or a frog on the box.

And the same companies that make the cereals make several other verticals too, all carved similarly.

This configuration has not, generally, been considered illegal in terms of market regulation in the US. The standard is harm to consumers, not harm to non-incumbent manufacturers. Your battle to show why either of these spaces should be regulated more stringently is uphill against the default in the US to take a hands-off approach to market activity unless necessary to cure an obvious ill (and the ills here are non-obvious; how do we show the cereal market, or the software-services market, don't look the way they do because the incumbent players have hit on a locally-optimal approach to give value to customers, while customers are satisfied? Amazon, for example, are bastards, but they're bastards that have managed to unlock such efficient distribution and value-satisfaction for their customers that they rendered an entire ecosystem of competitors as obsolete as the buggy-whip manufacturer).

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