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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#791

Post by stnmtn »

bedhead wrote: post #549
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how far some people will go (selfishly) to "protect" their perceived "freedom" at the expense of society. There really is something rotten in our society and it's not anything to do with authoritarianism but empathy, good grief.

Oh my freedom - minor pesky detail as it is - needs to be completely suppressed indefinitely because you're literally a delusional paranoid who can no longer process reality because awwwwww, it's too scawey. Freedom and laws and common decency and general cognitive abilities are only okay unless half of us became deranged with baseless paranoia and become convinced that a minority of people are turning the world into…

Are you free to drive a car drunk? Are you free to shoot into a crowd with a gun?

What do you mean by freedom? You live in a country that has laws that restrict your freedom already; this vague grasp that you make toward "freedom" from getting a vaccine is so strange and silly

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#792

Post by jbeam »

hiram112 wrote: post #679
HWR_14 wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> During Covid they CLOSED 3 entire floors of the Hospital due to inactivity, she was PISSED because those floors could have easily been used as overflow. >yes thay are "full" now because operational capacity has been significantly reduced. Well, most hospitals aren't limited by literal space. They are limited by personnel, or supplies, or even ICU capacity. Not square footage. > What sort of degenerate would wish th…

> Is it really wrong to request that if they want to use our health care system they take basic care of themselves? At least in the US, there is no "our" health care system. My employer and I pay about $500 / month in premiums for just me. My insurance company has made contractual agreements with the vast majority of health care providers (they've become more and more consolidated over the years) to provide service t…

HIV does not have anywhere close to a 100% fatality rate anymore, everything about this comment is just completely inflammatory and misinformed. Plus if a vaccine existed for it gay men would take it in a heartbeat.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#793

Post by betwixthewires »

boplicity wrote: post #420
disneygibson wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should mandate everything that saves lives, no matter the cost to freedom or infringing of rights? This is the issue with technocratic government: zero understanding of anything deeper than “if it works, do it!”

I am open to hearing a coherent description of the specific "cost to freedom" of taking one of the widely available COVID vaccines.

There's no cost to freedom to taking it. There's a cost to freedom to be coerced into taking it.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#794

Post by CyanLite2 »

walterbell wrote: post #8
lalaland1125 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that change liability requirements? My fundamental question is that schools already have tons of vaccine requirements, so why should this one be considered special?

Because it alters the risk/benefit calculus. A sterilizing vaccine that stops transmission in its tracks, has a clear public health benefit to every part of society, even if there are risks. A non-sterilizing vaccine does not provide that society-wide public health benefit, leaving the employer to bear risks without benefit.

No. It's controversial because too many people believe idiots on social media who never graduated high school spout off theories about 5G microchipping, lizard people, and Ivermectin Horse DeWormer.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#796

Post by Ancapistani »

DaftDank wrote: post #716
manquer wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money/economy was certainly a big reason. Back in 1860s, cotton and other plantation heavy industries where very lucrative, the southern states were very wealthy enough to be able to field a big army for years, while they lacked strong industry to support an extended campaign. Also manifest destiny and especially Monroe doctorine all pre dated the civil war, there was certainly strong idealogoical belief on who the c…

The south's money/economy was dependent upon slavery, that is true. But every single southern state listed the right to own slaves as one of their reasons for secession. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declarati...

Your link lists five states - there were eleven in the Confederacy. While I believe most did list slavery as cause of action either directly or obliquely, not all did.

Here is a transcript of Arkansas’s Ordinance of Secession: https://digitalheritage.arkansas.gov/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?fil...

Note that there is no mention of slavery.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#797

Post by Jeema101 »

ctrlp wrote: post #345
Jeema101 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ends when half a million+ people per year (in the US anyway) aren't dying of a preventable disease - not to mention probably millions more suffering long term effects. I see a familiar pattern with sentiments like this: showing lots of hand-wringing over civil liberties, but seemingly no concern over all the people who have died and who have been incapacitated. Those people had a right to not be exposed to a deadl…

I also see a familiar pattern with sentiments like yours. There is little to no concern for people whose livelihoods or psychological health were harmed by health policies that prioritize the vulnerable minority over everyone else, including children. Health policy diktats aimed at saving every life will inevitably harm many in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. Will the cumulative harms ever be counted? Not likely as it…

Sure let's count them.

Suicide killed 44,834 Americans in 2020.

Covid killed half a million Americans from March 2020 to March 2021.

Are you sure you're really as concerned about public health as you claim to be?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#798

Post by op00to »

iluvcommunism wrote: post #156
xupybd wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hard hat isn't a medical procedure. Some die from this vaccine. I weighed up the options and decided it was by far the lower risk option. I think people need to be free to make that choice. Freedom is so valuable.

VAERS shows several thousand have died. Some estimate 45k based on a Harvard study on VAERS indicating a % that goes unreported.

That's interesting, my very official competing VAERS shows that the vaccine has caused several thousand people to have spontaneously come into existence! I welcome you to submit your data, as I accept any reports from anyone regardless of political axe to grind.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#799

Post by halfjoking »

josho wrote: post #280
guscost wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America will split into two societies - those who demand a yearly injection (and who knows what else) in exchange for access to basic goods and services, and those who do not. The ones who do not will gather in their own towns, cities, and states where this freedom is respected, and secured by militias. I will be in that latter society. Or civil war. Also possible.

I haven't spoken to an anti-vaxxer yet. Those that I've seen in the media have been completely irrational (5g/bill gates theories). So, I'm looking forward to learning from a rational person what their motivations are. What are your reasons to refuse a vaccine? Weren't you vaccinated as a child for polio & chicken pox? Why is this vaccine a hill to die on? Thanks.

I consider myself rational (at least enough to work in software). Here's a copy/paste of a comment I made before why I refuse the RNA vaxx...

- I already had long covid (lasted 14 months), and don't want the vaccine to cause a relapse. It did exactly that to a family member who also had long covid, and she's still not better. It's just anecdotal but I've seen on longcovid forums multiple people claiming the vaccine CAUSED their longcovid.

- I don't believe CDC recommendation that increasing antibody titers through vaccination offers better protection against the virus than convalescent immunity through prior infection. Antibody titers are just one aspect of immunity and BCells make antibodies when exposed to a virus again. Actually I'd be worried about training my immune system with only one part of the virus, it's possible that would hurt my robust immunity against variants, not help it.

- CDC is dishonest with numbers by not tracking mild/non-hospitalized breakthrough cases. There is no reason not to track them. From the UK Gov on Page 12... 37 of 73 deaths from Delta variant are vaccinated: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... According to the CDC and media such numbers of deaths among vaccinated would be statistically impossible.

- FDA not approving an inactive virus vaccine is BS. It's a monumental failure of the US government if they want a high % of people vaccinated to only offer DNA/RNA vaccines that are nothing like traditional vaccines people receive as children. China's Sinopharm works at preventing death and is just inactive virus. If required to take a vaccine I'd travel to another country to take that. Actually I'd even pay $10k to have an inactive virus vaccine imported if it prevented me from being discriminated against.

- If there was such a thing as "misinformation" then it should be openly mocked, ridiculed and contested with facts. What's happening now with censorship is unprecedented - we even need a dedicated news site to keep track of it: https://reclaimthenet.org/ . Organizations like the EFF should be presenting legal challenges for many of these things but it seems like everyone has gotten on the "misinformation" bandwagon. Doing that will lead to authoritarianism. Health policy should not be political, but opposing forced medical procedures is a fundamental human right, no exceptions.

Also, since you mentioned Polio and chicken pox, I don't consider those the same because they are not RNA vaccines. All my issues with taking a covid vaxx would be solved if only the FDA approved Sinopharm/Sinovac so I could take an inactive virus vaccine. Instead I'm losing my job soon.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#800

Post by betwixthewires »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #327
bedhead wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right that some schools have had a vaccine mandate. But neither the private nor public sector ever have. And we didn’t have the accompanying dystopian nightmare as a reality and further threat. So I would say your argument is tired and misses the point entirely, aside from being so brazenly naive to fall for the “if only these last few holdouts got vaccinated everything would be normal!” straw man. Keep on goo…

It's amazing how far some people will go (selfishly) to "protect" their perceived "freedom" at the expense of society. There really is something rotten in our society and it's not anything to do with authoritarianism but empathy, good grief.

Not who you're talking to but yes, I will protect my freedom at your expense in every case, for two reasons. One, I am my first responsibility and you are yours, and two, and far more importantly, the only way me protecting my freedom comes at your expense is if you're trying to violate my rights.

If everyone put themselves above society the world would be a much better place.

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