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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#671

Post by frumper »

BackBlast wrote: post #560
astura wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some states (including big ones like California and NY and conservative ones like Mississippi and West Virginia) have no exemptions to school vaccine requirements other than medical exemptions. https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/school-immunization-exe...

Since the change there have been a number of doctors willing to grant medical exemptions to any who want them. [0] It isn't as much of an impediment as it appears. [0] https://calmatters.org/health/2020/09/california-doctor-scho...

The article you linked talks about a new law that invalidated those exemptions from that doctor because they were not supported by clinical guidelines.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#672

Post by ecommerceguy »

geofft wrote: post #665
ecommerceguy wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister is a nurse in a "red" state. During Covid they CLOSED 3 entire floors of the Hospital due to inactivity, she was PISSED because those floors could have easily been used as overflow. And yes thay are "full" now because operational capacity has been significantly reduced. >>"I almost wish that the anti-vaxxers would just stick to their science-rejecting principles and reject all health care, not just the vacc…

There's no degeneracy here. It's a perfectly defensible line of moral reasoning. The constraint is, there simply is not enough capacity to treat everyone. If there was, there would be no problem. So should you prioritize care for people who are intentionally making themselves ill, or those who aren't? You have to choose one, after all. Are you advocating that people with illnesses other than covid should get delayed…

>>The constraint is, there simply is not enough capacity to treat everyone. If there was, there would be no problem. So should you prioritize care for people who are intentionally making themselves ill, or those who aren't?

You're missing the point, floors closed create the deficit in operational capacity.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#673

Post by moistrobot »

ren_engineer wrote: post #405
moistrobot wrote: post #284

We're getting closer to two Americas. Policies like these will only exacerbate the transition. Expect to mass over non-compliance from conservative states and businesses

there's no such thing as a conservative state, look at county level election maps. It's all rural vs Urban, even in New York and California. Suburbs are for the most part purple as well people who talk about succession and splitting off have no idea what they are talking about, it wouldn't be clean at all

There's no way to split geographically, and it won't be clean.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#674

Post by mchusma »

IMO there is only one argument for not dropping all restrictions and a complete return to normalcy, it's "what about the children?"

Here is their BS response:

"The FDA is undergoing a process now to evaluate a vaccine for children under the age of 12, and under the President’s plan, the Administration will do whatever it takes to support those efforts, while continuing to respect and defer to the scientific decision-making of the agency."

I feel like our entire society has been held hostage by the FDA. I think a bold plan to completely get rid of the FDA would have been more appropriate. Just dismantle the whole organization. It's too broken to fix.

Figuring out if the vaccine is safe for children under 12 takes a maximum of 8 weeks (1 week to administer, 6 weeks to watch, 1 week to organize results).

It's been 4 weeks since the association of pediatric doctors reviewed the data and begged the FDA to lift the ban.

It has been well over a year now since phase II safety results were in from adults. It's been many months.

I don't understand why there isn't a wide, bipartisan push to remove the FDA from our lives. Multiple presidents, multiple heads, all a complete and total catastrophe.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#675

Post by wikidani »

robmccoll wrote: post #411
robmccoll wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah what's next? Making other behaviors that have a small but established likelihood of endangering the lives of others or their property illegal at little to no cost to the liberty of an individual? Pretty soon I won't be able to drive my car under the influence, or without proper insurance, or while not wearing a seatbelt, or I won't be able to discharge my firearms in my 0.2 acre backyard in a suburban area. 650,…

I really wish HN had a controversy upvote / downvote ratio - maybe multiplied by number of votes?

That's the kind of stuff that ruined reddit

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#676

Post by amanaplanacanal »

aruggirello wrote: post #587
TOMDM wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people could take a shot or two that massively reduces the risk of sugar induced cancer, diabetes and heart disease they'd be fools not to take it.

Why not prevent such cancers in the first place? Forbidding sales of sugar, cigarettes, and trash food would go a long way to prevent cancer, diabetes, heart disease and obesity. Sh*t happens, you can't have a vaccine for everything.

Unfortunately you are going to have a hard time finding scientific agreement on which foods to ban. The science isn’t that good yet.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#677

Post by stjohnswarts »

drewg123 wrote: post #502
leesalminen wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you go to an emergency room in 2019, by chance? Waiting many hours to be admitted has been the norm in American healthcare for a very long time.

According to the staff, the temporary holding area I was in (an office cube farm converted to holding patients in recliners) was new, as was the practice of lining every available hallway with people in beds. I went to this hospital specifically because it was close to home (riding in a car with an appendicitis is agony), and because it advertised low wait times. It turns out the low wait time was to be triaged, not…

Sure but now the times are astronomical and they may take one look at you and say you're too far gone and let you die because ICU simply doesn't have any beds. So some dummy who wouldn't get the vaccine just killed (by proxy) your relative most likely.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#678

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

ctrlp wrote: post #517
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberty you think ever existed never did, look around. All the "freedom" advocates against the vax just pick and choose how they define freedom. There's no place in the world you can live as a sovereign citizen, so I'd suggest you get on board or buy a boat and live out on open water because that's the only place you'll be "free".

IMO, this type of political nihilism is the natural result of a dispirited populace grown used to delegating its own government to unaccountable managers. I'm not arguing for sovereign citizenship, just regular citizenship. There is a long tradition of political thought regarding liberty and freedom, your cynicism notwithstanding. If you ever find yourself using terms like 'rights', 'free', or 'justice' without quota…

Citizenship comes with strings attached and I'm under no illusion or delusion that I am "free" in the objective sense. I'm also completely ok with that because society has afforded me great freedom(s) that I could not have elsewhere. I _have_ to work a job, I _have_ to pay taxes, I _have_ to enlist if called upon in the draft, I _have_ to be vaccinated to go to school.

The inconvenient truth may be that as society becomes more interconnected, the less objective freedoms we have because we're trying to scale humanity and reap the collective benefits. Again, I'm completely ok with that because even in software, we have standards that software must abide by in order to interoperate efficiently. You can't just say "I don't want to conform the society's standards" yet reap the benefits the collective has provided.

I'm content with my world view, maybe it's you that needs to look outside of yourself and see what everyone is actually trying to do here (outside of this immediate situation, I mean the species as a whole).

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#679

Post by hiram112 »

HWR_14 wrote: post #617
ecommerceguy wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister is a nurse in a "red" state. During Covid they CLOSED 3 entire floors of the Hospital due to inactivity, she was PISSED because those floors could have easily been used as overflow. And yes thay are "full" now because operational capacity has been significantly reduced. >>"I almost wish that the anti-vaxxers would just stick to their science-rejecting principles and reject all health care, not just the vacc…

> During Covid they CLOSED 3 entire floors of the Hospital due to inactivity, she was PISSED because those floors could have easily been used as overflow. >yes thay are "full" now because operational capacity has been significantly reduced. Well, most hospitals aren't limited by literal space. They are limited by personnel, or supplies, or even ICU capacity. Not square footage. > What sort of degenerate would wish th…

> Is it really wrong to request that if they want to use our health care system they take basic care of themselves?

At least in the US, there is no "our" health care system.

My employer and I pay about $500 / month in premiums for just me. My insurance company has made contractual agreements with the vast majority of health care providers (they've become more and more consolidated over the years) to provide service to their CUSTOMERS. On top of that, most Americans now have thousands of dollars in deductibles which are used to directly subsidize Obamacare recipients.

But you're right, we should expect people to "take basic care of themselves" if they want to freeload on MY health care system. So along with those who are unvaccinated, let's toss out:

* homosexual men. The rates of infectious diseases, including HIV which has a 100% fatality rate, are off the charts due to their very promiscuous lifestyles. Do you know the number of sexual partners an average gay man in the US has by middle age? It's shocking...

* Young black men. Lifetime chances of using ER services due to violence are so high, it'd make sense just to deny them outright.

* In fact, just deny all blacks in the US. After gay men, it turns out heterosexual black women are now the biggest carriers of HIV, and that is almost always caused by their choices (i.e. promiscuous lifestyles). On top of that, their obesity rates are so high that along with the fact they disproportionately freeload off the system (Medicaid, Obamacare subsidies, etc), our system would be improved drastically if we could cut that burden off.

* Undocumented immigrants. They rarely pay into the system. They tend to not use preventative care due to lack of insurance, thus they disproportionately use ER services which is a disadvantage to those of us like me who pay for the system.

I could go on, though I don't think you'd like who ends up being denied service because they "don't take basic care of themselves" and don't pay into the system.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#680

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

bedhead wrote: post #549
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how far some people will go (selfishly) to "protect" their perceived "freedom" at the expense of society. There really is something rotten in our society and it's not anything to do with authoritarianism but empathy, good grief.

Oh my freedom - minor pesky detail as it is - needs to be completely suppressed indefinitely because you're literally a delusional paranoid who can no longer process reality because awwwwww, it's too scawey. Freedom and laws and common decency and general cognitive abilities are only okay unless half of us became deranged with baseless paranoia and become convinced that a minority of people are turning the world into…

Lol to think masks and getting vaccinated to help society continue to function is as hyperbolic as you portray, what a way to go through life. I hope you find a way to release your anger and learn to help others.
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