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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#691

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

mfer wrote: post #575
jonahbenton wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. People who raise this argument tend to ignore the fact that the most important impact of the vaccine is the systemic protection it offers against the irresponsibility of individual choice. The vaccine does not in fact guarantee person X will not be infected or hospitalized. Widespread vaccination does result in systemic reduction in community spread. Ponder that.

> The vaccine does not in fact guarantee person X will not be infected or hospitalized. Widespread vaccination does result in systemic reduction in community spread. We aren't going to wipe out COVID. It's here to stay. From people to animals. At some point most of us will likely get it. There has been a fair amount written on this. If we look at past times we had pandemics (e.g., pandemic of 1889-90) we can see patt…

Did the MMR vaccine mandates from the 70s and 80s create permanent enemies? Lots of people say this is a huge world-shaking issue for them, and I believe that they believe that, but politically active people are heavily incentivized to learn how to see everything in maximalist terms. If most businesses begin mandating the vaccine and infection rates are low next year, I'm confident the vast majority of people won't remember why it was supposed to be a big deal.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#692

Post by stjohnswarts »

Ekaros wrote: post #258

I wonder should we also start mandating yearly influenza shots from everyone? And bar those who are not tested or vaccinated from work places? It would certainly save some lives wouldn't it?

Influenza is not shutting down the country and making us miserable. It's a much less disruptive disease. Just because you don't want to get a jab doesn't mean society should shut down for you. That's why this should be done through employers and other methods requiring you not participate if you won't participate in something to help society. If you don't want to get a jab don't work for them. Easy choice. Start your own Jab Free Lawn Service.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#693

Post by zxcvbn4038 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #476
zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking kills 500,000 people per year in the US - which is only slightly less then COVID at current rates - I don't see anyone rushing to shut that down. Heart disease kills 650,000 per year, but there is still a McDonalds and Taco Bell on every corner.

There are absolutely enormous anti-smoking adversing and education campaigns. Cigarettes are mandated by law to have very specific packaging that loudly lists the risk of death. Large taxes are placed on them. In a great many places you are not allowed to smoke in public. Smokers have higher health insurance premiums and cannot access certain kinds of medical care like various organ transplants. Selling a cigarette t…

The could save the lives of 500,000 per year if they just forbid the sale. Why do you suppose the 500,000 that die from smoking and the 500,000 that die from COVID are treated differently?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#694

Post by dang »

exabrial wrote: post #601
drewg123 wrote: post #426

For those of you arguing against getting vaccinated, please go volunteer at a local hospital. I'm currently in the hospital in the "red" part of my purple state. I had an acute appendicitis, and had to wait in a temporary, crowded, understaffed holding area in the ER for over 18 hours before getting admitted for treatment. My roommate in the hospital has an infected foot, and waited over 24 hours to be admitted. He m…

> "Arguing against vaccination" Stop. You're intentionally skewing what's being said and making the problem worse. People are against _forced_ medical procedures by a government. A small minority is anti-science, but you give them a voice every time YOU do what you just did.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's against the rules and the opposite of what we're trying for here.

The rules don't stop applying. as a topic becomes more significant or as feelings become more intense. Matter of fact, they apply more:

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#695

Post by awillen »

mchusma wrote: post #674

IMO there is only one argument for not dropping all restrictions and a complete return to normalcy, it's "what about the children?" Here is their BS response: "The FDA is undergoing a process now to evaluate a vaccine for children under the age of 12, and under the President’s plan, the Administration will do whatever it takes to support those efforts, while continuing to respect and defer to the scientific decision-…

There's also the reason that dropping all restrictions means hospitals become overwhelmed (which we are currently seeing in some parts of the country). This means that quality of emergency medical care is potentially severely compromised for both Covid and non-Covid patients, and it means that non-emergency medical care must be postponed (and just because it's non-emergency doesn't mean there aren't negative consequences of postponing it).

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#696

Post by chinathrow »

ctrlp wrote: post #688
mchusma wrote: post #674

IMO there is only one argument for not dropping all restrictions and a complete return to normalcy, it's "what about the children?" Here is their BS response: "The FDA is undergoing a process now to evaluate a vaccine for children under the age of 12, and under the President’s plan, the Administration will do whatever it takes to support those efforts, while continuing to respect and defer to the scientific decision-…

I guess you don't subscribe to the possibility of mid-term and long-term effects of gene therapies. A pregnancy takes 9 months (which is longer than 8 weeks if my math is correct) and involves a child under 12 (again, check my math). But you're right! All this hand-wringing about 'the children' is just safetyism.

mRNA vaccines are not altering your genes and are not generally viewed as "gene therapy".

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#697

Post by adamrezich »

6d6b73 wrote: post #185
ghaff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is full of “irreplaceable” people.

Better version imho - Cementaries are full of irreplaceable people.

never caught covid when I took care of my mom when she had it last year and I worked as a cashier at Walmart during last year's Sturgis Rally and tourism season, and I somehow survived this year's Rally and tourism season as well... I'm going to be just fine, but I appreciate the "concern" nonetheless.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#698

Post by AndrewBissell »

swayvil wrote: post #394
AndrewBissell wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm right there with you. Had an old friend of over 25 years say to me that it was a "blunt cudgel to enforce a social instinct that is shockingly atrophied in people." Hang in there, you are not alone and we are still in the very early days of this whole operation. Also, you might be able to find a local anti-mask or anti-mandate group on Facebook, I've found having that social support network is really helpful.

Is Facebook allowing those? The censorship (authoritarian as well as consensual) is pretty heavy on facebook, twitter, reddit. Isolating dissenters. Make them feel like lone crazies.

There is still one that is active in my local area, at least.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#699

Post by notacoward »

mchusma wrote: post #674

IMO there is only one argument for not dropping all restrictions and a complete return to normalcy, it's "what about the children?" Here is their BS response: "The FDA is undergoing a process now to evaluate a vaccine for children under the age of 12, and under the President’s plan, the Administration will do whatever it takes to support those efforts, while continuing to respect and defer to the scientific decision-…

> I don't understand why there isn't a wide, bipartisan push to remove the FDA from our lives.

Don't understand, or feel contempt based on ideology without understanding? Even if you disagree with how the FDA has handled COVID vaccines - largely in the face of pressure and infiltration by an administration sharply opposed to any regulatory mission - there are many other things that it does. Would you forego all FDA oversight of food, drugs (not just vaccines), medical devices, and radiation-emitting products? Throw that all into the courts, which can never address a harm until after the fact and even in those cases is even less equipped to handle the issues under FDA's mandate?

People who've done at least minimal diligence can certainly disagree with some of the things FDA does. There's plenty of room for that, but "fail to understand" why others don't share your spitting hatred of the agency as a whole? Sorry, but that's not even a position that deserves to be taken seriously.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#700

Post by stjohnswarts »

clipradiowallet wrote: post #610
plainnoodles wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never send to know for whom the bell tolls. As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates. But as-is, normal people who took precautions to get vaccinated are being hurt by anti-vaxxers when they get an unrelated illness or injury (car wreck, infection, etc) and then suffer worse…

> As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates. Can you extend this logic to other groups beyond "unvaccinated"? For example, imagine the ICU beds that would be unoccupied if people who smoke tobacco and drink alcohol chose to "die at home". As a society, we know both of these be…

No we have laws to limit that, so why not have laws that limit where Typhoid Mary and Covid Christ can participate in society. They aren't putting them in jail they're simply giving the choice to get a jab or lose their current job or eating in a crowded restaurant. They are free to still start their own business and remain vaccine free.
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