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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#311

Post by probably_wrong »

DiffEq wrote: post #152
probably_wrong wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why must I be vaccinated if the vaccine doesn't prevent spread? (...) I am comfortable catching the disease and even comfortable dying from it Became it's not about you , it's about everyone around you as a group. Those who are "comfortable catching the disease" are taking up a non-insignificant portion of available hospital beds, for instance, keeping health workers at their limit and preventing other people from…

If I may ask - can you tell me which city's hospital beds are full due to Covid 19 patients?

Right now? In the USA? "Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Florida and Arkansas have less than 10% left of their ICU bed capacity, according to data from the Department of Health and Human Services. (...) Idaho had just four ICU beds available out of the 400 beds total in the state, Gov. Brad Little said."

https://www.wktv.com/content/news/These-5-states-have-less-t...

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#312

Post by TOMDM »

notacoward wrote: post #239
captainredbeard wrote: post #11

Why must I be vaccinated if the vaccine doesn't prevent spread? Preventing spread to other people is the only plausible reason to force everyone to take it. I am comfortable catching the disease and even comfortable dying from it (the numbers are vastly on my side). I do far riskier things on a regular basis (extreme sports) and I do not understand the infantilization of society. Join the feedlot if you want but I wi…

But vaccines do reduce spread. https://archive.is/fCv5F (National Geographic) https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0607-mrna-reduce-ri... That's why states with higher vaccination rates are seeing less spread than states with low vaccination rates. https://www.wsj.com/articles/highly-vaccinated-states-keep-w... No, it doesn't absolutely prevent spread, but that's a ridiculous standard (often used to assure a cert…

I can't believe we're still arguing this on this forum of all places.

The very worst estimates of the vaccines efficacy rate against the Delta variant sit at 30-50% for various measures. People on this forum are ecstatic about improving systems by 2-3% on the regular, and here is a free and easy measure that measurably reduces the mortality rate of yourself and those around you and we are _still_ arguing about it.

I used to think much more highly of the quality of discussion on here.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#313

Post by BurningFrog »

josho wrote: post #266
BurningFrog wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still don't really understand how diet affects health long term. The effects of smoking OTOH are extremely clear.

> We still don't really understand how diet affects health long term. I thought it was pretty clear that we do. Go talk to any physician and they will tell you the 3 things you control to increase your chances of a long & healthy life are: 1. Limit alcohol/tobacco 2. exercise frequently 3. eat a healthy diet Are you suggesting for #3 they have no data to back that recommendation up?

They have a lot of recommendations. The problem is that they change radically about once per decade.

~10 years ago they still thought eating fat made you fat, and recommended high carb diets.

Perhaps the 2021 recommendations are finally the correct ones. But how do I know that?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#314

Post by Cederfjard »

guscost wrote: post #251
tomrod wrote: post #237

I see this as an unmitigated good and the only way we move forward on normalcy. May it inspire others to do similar so we can address vaccinations here then move our surplus abroad.

“Normalcy” is gone for good. If you’re actually still hoping for some future that looks like the pre-COVID times, you’re going to be disappointed. Hoping to avoid war is more in alignment with reality, at this point.

What permanent changes are you envisioning?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#315

Post by [deleted] »

josho wrote: post #266
BurningFrog wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still don't really understand how diet affects health long term. The effects of smoking OTOH are extremely clear.

> We still don't really understand how diet affects health long term. I thought it was pretty clear that we do. Go talk to any physician and they will tell you the 3 things you control to increase your chances of a long & healthy life are: 1. Limit alcohol/tobacco 2. exercise frequently 3. eat a healthy diet Are you suggesting for #3 they have no data to back that recommendation up?

[deleted]

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#316

Post by jwond »

jowsie wrote: post #277
justaman wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have literally redefined "anti-vaxxer" in a similar way to how "racism" was redefined. Its being used as a tool for control.

How and when was racism redefinied?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/merriam-webster-redefines-racis...

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#317

Post by tolmasky »

md_ wrote: post #281
Ekaros wrote: post #258

I wonder should we also start mandating yearly influenza shots from everyone? And bar those who are not tested or vaccinated from work places? It would certainly save some lives wouldn't it?

It would probably save lives _and_ lower the cost of healthcare. This is why many employers already offer free on-site "influence" (heh) shots for employees: it makes good business sense. I'm never sure how to take objections like yours, because there are certainly a few different things to discuss. Is your objection to the government's role in this (such that you'd be fine with private employers enforcing whatever m…

If we lived in a non-influenza world that suddenly experienced influenza for the first time, we would think it's crazy to not only allow, but many times encourage, sick employees to come to work and basically take out the entire office. It's like just committing to losing a week's worth of productivity across the board.

One nice benefit of going more remote is that we can hopefully "personalize" the cold/flu experience vs. making it a de facto office-wide experience, and without the bizarre politics around vaccines/masks/sick-days/etc.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#318

Post by mgkimsal »

tomrod wrote: post #288
josho wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We still don't really understand how diet affects health long term. I thought it was pretty clear that we do. Go talk to any physician and they will tell you the 3 things you control to increase your chances of a long & healthy life are: 1. Limit alcohol/tobacco 2. exercise frequently 3. eat a healthy diet Are you suggesting for #3 they have no data to back that recommendation up?

Eh, yes there is data but the association is not clear and straightforward that diet is the necessary or sufficient condition for metabolic or cardiovascular diseases. What you're quoting is, in healthcare, called the "standard of care" and is the workflow that is recommended for doctors (i.e. less likely to be sued for malpractice if they follow the route). Most doctors are technicians, not researchers establishing…

"Most doctors are technicians, not researchers"

Thanks. Very succinct, and helps me frame my medical interactions a bit more clearly now.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#319

Post by jtbayly »

enkid wrote: post #255
ctrlp wrote: post #203

Whether or not you agree if there is legal authority for mandates for this vaccine or this pandemic, where does it end? The trajectory we're on is for all people to be monitored by the State for compliance with the vaccine programs. Israel is already saying 4 shots (and more) will required [0] to participate in that society. Australia, New Zealand, and Canada are quasi-police states [1] and will probably mandate vacc…

This exact argument could be used to push back against environmental standards, occupational safety standards, or drinking water standards. I don't want cholera outbreaks and I don't want the health system to collapse because of COVID.

No it can't be compared to OSHA or drinking water standards. For people to drink clean water requires a treatment plant to be operating correctly, not for every person that drinks water to be treated with a shot.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#320

Post by motohagiography »

Get vaccinated because vaccines mostly work, and then leave other people alone. People so publicly concerned with Jim Crow laws from over 50 years ago seem pretty enthusiastic to reinstitute them for a new contrived outgroup of the non-compliant. There is no return to normal, because the entire objective of this pandemic response was to destroy normal. Ethics themselves are an artifact of the world these policymakers and their tools want to destroy.

The mandates have almost nothing to do with a disease, and everything to do with instituting a social compliance regime facilitated by electronic passports. The arguments about rights not being absolute just means we can contrive their exceptions, and generations who have been trained that there is no truth are contriving exceptions with policies like this.

The hardest part of the pandemic has been in the wind down phase, where I found out that many acquaintences were really just banal nihilists who are content to forfeit their societies for the perception of approval and alignment to a pernicious narrative. The last 18months were not a crisis, they were just frog boiling, and I predict much harder times ahead.

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