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Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#161

Post by hker »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #152
Yeroc wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but China holds all the financial levers to keep everyone in their place. If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. Take a look around you and think about that for a few minutes. They can get away with almost anything. The only thing they fear is an internal uprising.

> If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. That would be the best thing that ever happened to the rest of the world, and to Chinese citizens as well. China has long abused its citizens to undercut global prices on manufactured goods. Their political and religious prisoners are very often put to work in factories (if not sent to work camps or tortured in prison); and wages for factory wo…

> In the early 1930s, the USSR survived by shipping so much grain out of Ukraine that by 1933, 25% of the Ukrainian populace had died. Dictatorships and authoritarian regimes always abuse people one way or another to survive.

During the Great Leap Forward around 1958-1962, an estimated 15 to 55 millions died in China due to famine, while China was still a net exporter of grain (to Cuba and Africa).

Another data point to support your point.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#162

Post by tw04 »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #145
yodsanklai wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of effort China is putting to sabotage Taiwan independence is astonishing. I have Taiwanese relatives and I'm very worried for them.

The USA has been losing all war games where it defends Tawain against China. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/us-war-games-over-china-threat... It is not okay to assume USA supremacy against adversaries anymore. Why Americans still do business with China is astounding to me.

> the latest war game was based on a Chinese biological-weapon attack that swept through US bases and warships in the Indo-Pacific region more than a decade in the future

If China starts a war by releasing a biological weapon, Taiwan will be the least of their concerns. I don't see any scenario in which every Western and neutral nation on Earth doesn't turn against them. Maybe Russia helps, but I doubt it.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#163

Post by hker »

tablespoon wrote: post #134
cabalamat wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I think they'd go for it. If there were sizable numbers of US troops on Taiwan, I don't think they'd attack. They don't want a major confrontation, at least not yet.

> If there were sizable numbers of US troops on Taiwan, I don't think they'd attack. They don't want a major confrontation, at least not yet. There's a decent chance at this point that all those troops would do is hold the airport for a rushed evacuation mission.

US is prioritizing South China Sea and Taiwan Strait after its exit from Afghanistan.

US sails ship through South China Sea days after China institutes new maritime ID rules [1]

[1]: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/08/politics/us-south-china-sea-m...

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#164

Post by space_fountain »

mushbino wrote: post #141
rmason wrote: post #127

Leaders in the former Soviet Union learned the easiest way to erase an historical event was to remove all public record of it. For those who do not remember they would arrest a member of say the Politburo and then all pictures of him with other leaders would be airbrushed out, sometimes even in library books. It was as if he was no longer ever born.

I work with a lot of Chinese nationals and they know far more about tiananmen than westerners. Look up operation yellowbird.

Not to argue about this directly, but there is a stark difference in that we can argue about this. Is it not true that China will censor discussions about Tiananmen square especially if it disagrees with their narrative? Yes I'm sure Chinese citizens know some information about Tiananmen square that westerns don't. AKA the info and only the info that paints it as a western overreaction, but that has little meaning when it's literally the only narrative that's allowed.

Also for the record. While interesting Operation Yellowbird seems entirely innocuous

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#165

Post by neom »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #145
yodsanklai wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of effort China is putting to sabotage Taiwan independence is astonishing. I have Taiwanese relatives and I'm very worried for them.

The USA has been losing all war games where it defends Tawain against China. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/us-war-games-over-china-threat... It is not okay to assume USA supremacy against adversaries anymore. Why Americans still do business with China is astounding to me.

The only thing that will stop china from interfering in Taiwan is, universal consciousness willing, South Korea and Japan along with the other Asian nations having enough sway with China to keep them at bay. I very much prefer not to entertain WW3, but as others have said many times recently, if it is going to start, it may very well be over Taiwan.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#166

Post by hker »

stingrae wrote: post #53
Gray0Ed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sponsor relocation to US/UK/Taiwan for any HK citizen who wants it? HK will have 0 value to China if every educated person leaves it.

HK doesn't really have value to China other than making the case to its population that it never stands down or loses. Economically HK isn't that big of a deal compared to the rest of China at this point.

If it were true, China would not have delayed its Anti-Sanctions Law in Hong Kong [1]. Hong Kong is huge in supporting the Finance of China.

> But the Hong Kong government can only welcome the stock listing opportunity to reinforce Hong Kong as the world’s premier IPO destination, especially at a time when the introduction of the national security law has raised concerns about maintaining the city as a global financial hub.

[1]: https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3145952/why-chi...

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#167

Post by vmception »

asdff wrote: post #105
kunagi7 wrote: post #9

The Chinese Government is speeding up their efforts to swallow Hong Kong and Macau into the Mainland. Closing the media outlets, museums, websites that speak against them. And a few key people get abducted here and there to scare more people and force them to accept the Beijing Regime. But... The people from Hong Kong still demonstrates and tries to fight for their lost rights.

If Beijing ever martyrs the protestors like tianeman again I don't think the world will take kindly to that at all. I even think russia would join an american coalition. China has no strong allies that wouldn't prefer to spare themselves in the event of worldwide intervention and they can't fight off the entire developed world alone no matter how far they came in recent decades.

Imagine believing that

I'm not here to only disagree, like everyone else, I'm genuinely curious what influences you have to believe this

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#168

Post by wallacoloo »

chasd00 wrote: post #80
analognoise wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose voice is getting quashed in the US? Everyone has a Facebook, Twitter, email, phones, a magazine, protests, their own news channels, subReddits. What group doesn't have all those things? Whose voice is being quashed - exactly? Even straight up Nazis have websites, newsletters, gatherings, organized protest marches and Facebook pages. The fucking Taliban is on Twitter. So...who is being quashed because of their b…

For one, it's well known in tech that you're putting your job/livelihood at risk by speaking contrary to the political groupthink. Many people who didn't vote for Clinton or Biden are effectively in career hiding. Threatening someone's job over their beliefs/opinions is very effective censorship.

> it's well known in tech that you're putting your job/livelihood at risk by speaking contrary to the political groupthink.

Have you ever tried it?

FWIW, coworkers in my org pushed for a blacklist of words we’re not allowed to check into the codebase within the last year. I raised my counter opinion. I did so respectfully. Today, there’s no blacklist, and I still have my job.

Btw my presidential vote was a write-in for Bernie Sanders as president with Yang as running mate. Laugh if you like. I’m vaccinated; I wear a mask wherever the property owner of whatever establishment I’m in requests it (e.g. signs posted on the door), and omit the mask where not. I think my governor’s recent mask mandate is a mistake because we could already navigate the problem organically with the above approach, and anyone who wasn’t previously respecting an establishment’s masking policy isn’t going to respect a top-down legislative one given there’s no intent of enforcement.

People will disagree with my political opinions. And if they want, they’ll downvote me to communicate that. But I’m confident I won’t get banned from HN for stating these in the unusual event that it’s relevant to the discussion, much less that any future employer of importance is going to comb through here and decide against hiring me because I respectfully put forth an opposing political viewpoint.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#169

Post by bawolff »

Yeroc wrote: post #116
asdff wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Beijing ever martyrs the protestors like tianeman again I don't think the world will take kindly to that at all. I even think russia would join an american coalition. China has no strong allies that wouldn't prefer to spare themselves in the event of worldwide intervention and they can't fight off the entire developed world alone no matter how far they came in recent decades.

Ah, but China holds all the financial levers to keep everyone in their place. If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. Take a look around you and think about that for a few minutes. They can get away with almost anything. The only thing they fear is an internal uprising.

> If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported.

Who are you kidding? If there was a full scale china vs usa war, there would be nobody left to import the goods either.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#170

Post by stickfigure »

yuy910616 wrote: post #20
kunagi7 wrote: post #9

The Chinese Government is speeding up their efforts to swallow Hong Kong and Macau into the Mainland. Closing the media outlets, museums, websites that speak against them. And a few key people get abducted here and there to scare more people and force them to accept the Beijing Regime. But... The people from Hong Kong still demonstrates and tries to fight for their lost rights.

Really reminds me of the Taiwan election commercial that compares Taiwan and Hong Kong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykcVIQMrc4A

Honest question: Why not just give Taiwan nukes?

MAD seems to be a very effective peace strategy. China already has nukes. Seems the essential missing ingredient is the 'M'.

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