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20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

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Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#881

Post by kobasa »

MrCybertooth wrote: post #800
GhostVII wrote: post #537

We should have some kind of dashboard tracking how many people die from terrorism, car crashes, heart disease, COVID, etc., and how much time and money we spend trying to prevent these deaths. We are just so terrible at evaluating risk, for some reason it is OK to waste everyone's time with over the top security to stop a tiny portion of terrorism deaths, while still being OK with high speed limits that kill thousand…

Count of total death is just a 'metric' and something that can be 'optimised' and done 'cost benefit analysis' upon, unless it is your child or family member who is the casualty. I would like to understand how okay anybody would be when told that their daughter died because the government felt it was a waste of money to prevent it.

Big difference between labeling it a "waste of money" to having to prioritize whilst being constrained to a limited budget. I mean there's no words that will console a parent that lost their daughter anyways, not really a metric that should determine policy.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#882

Post by CountDrewku »

ubermonkey wrote: post #806
CountDrewku wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The target is to save lives. If the threat is still there, we need to keep the safety measures. Ok your argument just fell apart. Do we not always have the "need" to save lives? The "threat" is never going away. That's ambigous and completely subjective. What is is not is an objective measure of any sort. Which means it continues indefinitely until our leaders decide otherwise. The fact you cannot give me a set time…

You are being Fox-news-level combative about your hobbyhorse here. Others have explained why you are way off base. What would you have us do? Dispense with masks and vaccines and just let the chips fall where they may? That's madness. COVID is a threat. It's best to work to counteract that threat using the best tools we have available, which are pretty simple: masks, distance, and vaccination. >The fact you cannot gi…

Give me the numbers and the objective measurement of what we need to meet for this to happen. Why is this hard for you?

>What would you have us do? Dispense with masks and vaccines and just let the chips fall where they may? That's madness. COVID is a threat.

>You are being Fox-news-level combative about your hobbyhorse here.

While you're at it stop with the strawman and ad-hominem attacks. What it looks like is you have nothing to support the idea that this will stop once we meet a certain "threshold".

All I'm asking is what the threshold is. Are you really sure I'm the combative one in this situation?

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#883

Post by bqmjjx0kac »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #593
bqmjjx0kac wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with you, even in your hypothetical situation. I'd gladly wear a mask to protect 97-year-old obese smokers, if they were a vulnerable group. I feel like you invented this group to distance the vulnerable population from "us", but it just makes it sound like you have no empathy for other humans.

There are people with severe immune deficiencies that any disease they catch could kill them. Why aren't you wearing a full body haz mat suit to protect them? Do you think people with immune deficiencies lives are worth less and its okay to kill them? Where do you draw the line where it's okay to kill some people with your bodily diseases but not others?

I don't claim to have all the answers, but I think wearing a mask is a reasonable accommodation and barely an inconvenience. Same goes for FDA-approved vaccines.

Reductio ad absurdum doesn't always work in the real world, so your hazmat scenario just sounds silly.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#884

Post by rkk3 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #807
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you have all this talk of "bump stocks" and "ghost guns" and "assault weapons" and whatnot, but it's all just smoke and mirrors to assuage fears. The goal isn't to save lives. The goal is to assuage fears. I don't take any gun policy seriously that purports to save lives if it isn't focused on handguns and suicides. It's also politics. If you actually wanted to solve the problem, well, like two thirds of US fire…

> improve mental health I think that this is a poor target. How do you set out directly targeting mental health? What are the biggest causes of mental health issues? https://www.cdc.gov/mentalhealth/learn/index.htm CDC lists causes such as childhood trauma, trauma from medical issues, biological factors, alcohol or drugs, and loneliness or isolation. How do you set out to tackle loneliness or isolation? How do you he…

> just giving directly to mental health resources rings hollow. A tougher holistic approach needs to examine why American society just plain sucks for so many people

I don't think they are mutually exclusive, mental health can incorporate a systems approach. It seems patently foolish to ignore lifestyle factors like diet, exercise, sleep or social factors like friends, family, religion & other communal institutions.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#885

Post by extra88 »

jedberg wrote: post #751
extra88 wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble finding any state where a standard drivers license currently requires being fingerprinted. Texas did it for a little while but stopped in 2015. Some specialty licenses require it, like a commercial license to carry hazardous materials.

California requires your thumbprint (or fingerprint if you have no thumbs) to get your license.

I've seen second-hand references to that but only find references to prints being taken for occupational licenses on authoritative sites, like this one:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/occu...

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#886

Post by JoshTko »

switch007 wrote: post #358
ridaj wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been clear excess deaths (mortality rate increases) from all causes combined during waves. Most evaluations of excess deaths that I've seen conclude that Covid deaths are undercounted not over counted.

They didn’t cite excess deaths however. Hence my question Again, you say “covid deaths”. That is not precise.

Citations are on wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_dat...

Does precision matter in this case?

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#887

Post by [deleted] »

collegeburner wrote: post #860
pope_meat wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was all guns rights until the black panthers started arming up, and all the sudden it was "perhaps some sensible limits might be wise" Pretty hard to miss the intent. Arm the homeless is what I say when I'm feeling spicy.

Very pro-2A people agree that gun control is racist though. Mainstream republican party (what people think of as pro-2a) isnt very. Trump implemented bump stock restrictions, hell, reagan signed 86 new machine gun ban. If you talk to very pro-2a people you will hear them agree that armed minorities are harder to oppress; gun control is indeed very racist going back to army/navy laws and other restrictions on former s…

[deleted]

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#888

Post by extra88 »

pb7 wrote: post #749
extra88 wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble finding any state where a standard drivers license currently requires being fingerprinted. Texas did it for a little while but stopped in 2015. Some specialty licenses require it, like a commercial license to carry hazardous materials.

"REAL ID" requires fingerprints, which will soon be required to fly.

"Soon" being May 3, 2023 at the moment. I've lost count how many times the requirement for Real ID to fly has been delayed.

So far, searches haven't turned up authoritative information (on a current, relevant federal or state sites) on Real ID requiring any biometrics. I believe it, I just haven't found an official source confirming it.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#889

Post by jedberg »

js2 wrote: post #848
tcoff91 wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't have to give your fingerprints when you got a driver's license?

No, never. I’ve had licenses in FL, GA, NC and CA.

They for sure took your fingerprints in California. It's required to get a license.

Search this for fingerprint: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/california-driver-handboo...

You may just not remember because it's electronic.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#890

Post by jedberg »

extra88 wrote: post #885
jedberg wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California requires your thumbprint (or fingerprint if you have no thumbs) to get your license.

I've seen second-hand references to that but only find references to prints being taken for occupational licenses on authoritative sites, like this one: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/occu...

Search this document for the word finger: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/california-driver-handboo...

It's in there a few times.

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