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20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

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Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#531

Post by wpietri »

q1w2 wrote: post #375
wpietri wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the primary goal of security at a college football game to stop a suicide bomber? I strongly doubt that's how they see it.

It worked in Paris a few years ago. Two suicide bombers were stopped at security and detonated their suicide vests - no other people were killed besides the terrorists.

I agree it may also do that. My question is whether that's the goal of people inspecting bags at college sports.

When I was in college, campus security already banned a range of items at sports games. In 1989, they made national news for adding marshmallows to the list of banned objects: https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/26/sports/michigan-to-ban-ma...

That suggests to me that college stadium security is mainly about policing mundane behavior at college stadiums, and very little to do with terrorism.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#532

Post by spamizbad »

jaywalk wrote: post #485
spamizbad wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most airline passengers would trade dry flights for pre-9/11 security screenings.

Most airline passengers can already trade $85 every five years for pre-9/11 security screenings. They simply choose not to.

it gets expensive and annoying if you're traveling with your family.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#533

Post by Jasper_ »

isoskeles wrote: post #518
duxup wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking of other people and getting a vaccine and going on with your life without much of any impact seems like a very low bar.

Except now I’m supposed to show a digital vaccine record many places I go. Not many open source options exist for reading them either, so I’m just supposed to trust that the data (name, birth date, maybe location) isn’t being sent to some marketing analytics company somewhere. Edit: Since some HN commenters want to play disingenuous games and insert words into my mouth, I’ll clarify my specific problem is with these…

when I got my first vaccine, they gave me a paper card, and they put stickers on it to record which vaccines I got, and I put it in my wallet where it's been ever since. I haven't (yet, I guess) had to show a "digital vaccine record", I just show my paper card and they stare at it for a bit and then wave me through.

if you did not get that option, that sucks, and it sounds a bit inconvenient, but, uh, yeah, over 600,000 people in the US have died so far, i don't think that's a "scare", that sounds like a valid concern to me.

also your data is almost assuredly at 20 different marketing analytics firms already, regardless of how secure or open-source the digital vaccine record is.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#534

Post by staticassertion »

hunterb123 wrote: post #499
ryguytilidie wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I think I found the most disingenuous person on hacker news.

I speak my mind, unlike the echo chamber here. That's the opposite of disingenuous. Others have agreed with me, they either get greyed out or flagged. Even in this thread, look below. I'm sorry the majority follows blindly and can't see the similarities between the loss of freedom after 9/11 and covid.

Comparing the patriot act to mask mandates would be hilarious if it wasn't such a damning indictment of current discourse.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#535

Post by hunterb123 »

JohnFen wrote: post #528
hunterb123 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiting to see the long term effects of a mRNA vaccine? Natural immunity as I mentioned before. Religious reasons. Just because. You don't need a reason, it's your body.

> You don't need a reason, it's your body. The reason is to help protect and care for your fellow human beings. "It's your body" only counts if what you're doing with it isn't putting unconsenting others at risk. Forgoing the vaccine without a solid medical reason is putting others at risk. By your logic, you should be able to punch anyone in the face at any time, because your fist is part of your body, and "it's you…

> "It's your body" only counts if what you're doing with it isn't putting unconsenting others at risk.

Not according to pro-abortion stances.

If you want to get the vaccine, it should protect you. If you can't there are therapeutics. You don't need to force others to inject mRNA shots into them.

Your analogy was awful. Such a false equivalency, there's nothing even remotely the same about that example.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#536

Post by rootusrootus »

ceejayoz wrote: post #491
rootusrootus wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instantly. Where do I sign?

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/global-... https://www.tsa.gov/precheck https://www.clearme.com/

I have global entry & precheck (ironically, global entry is often slower than just using their app when you arrive). It's nice, for sure, but it's not pre-9/11 security. It's close, I guess, for just the traveller. But I miss the days when family could come to the gate. Maybe airports are too busy for that anyway, now, but I can dream.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#537

Post by GhostVII »

We should have some kind of dashboard tracking how many people die from terrorism, car crashes, heart disease, COVID, etc., and how much time and money we spend trying to prevent these deaths. We are just so terrible at evaluating risk, for some reason it is OK to waste everyone's time with over the top security to stop a tiny portion of terrorism deaths, while still being OK with high speed limits that kill thousands of people per year. Not that I'm advocating for lower speed limits, just that there is a contradiction here.

I bet that if instead of having people go through security at sporting events, you had them all do 20 push ups, you'd save more people from dying of heart disease than would die of terrorism.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#538

Post by hunterb123 »

mrtksn wrote: post #493
hunterb123 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah lockdowns were super well tested and worked wonders /s No, they cratered the middle class while making the rich richer. Now they know not to lock down to destroy the economy but instead push to destroy personal freedoms.

Talk to your local lockdown provider if you are not happy with the results. Done properly, of course a lockdown would be effective. Why? Because of the Germ theory. The viruses exist and they don't teleport. If anything, I would have much preferred if we had a month of global lockdown instead of years of slow burn battle. We wouldn't have had to convince people for vaccination too. It worked for Wuhan.

No, locking down for an indoor virus is stupid.

Vitamin D and open air works, not lock downs.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#539

Post by ziml77 »

hunterb123 wrote: post #476
mrtksn wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of the pandemic is a very observable and testable. The ways to combat the pandemic are also well known and tested. How a person can deny the existence of something that can test it personally?

Yeah lockdowns were super well tested and worked wonders /s No, they cratered the middle class while making the rich richer. Now they know not to lock down to destroy the economy but instead push to destroy personal freedoms.

The lockdowns didn't work because people pushed back against them causing the measures to be half-assed as a way to appease those people.

This happens all the time in politics and it's infuriating.

You can't judge the effectiveness of a plan if the plan is modified as a shitty compromise or just plain ignored. But people do judge them, which makes those compromises an effective form of sabotage.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#540

Post by EvanAnderson »

biomcgary wrote: post #504
duxup wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because we can't see much evidence of airport security doing anything. And vaccines and etc are backed by science?

Know of any randomized controlled trials on airport security?

There absolutely are red-team exercises against airport security. Sometimes the TSA has fared very poorly[0]. In the face of decreased air travel during this pandemic their "catch rate" has gotten better[1].

[0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-...

[1] https://www.npr.org/2021/01/26/960872502/2020-firearm-catch-...

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