Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado • Hacker News Board

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#111

Post by akulbe » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #97

MattGaiser wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wondered whether I was in the minority in caring a lot about these, as companies tend to talk about the "challenges" and "mission", and while I enjoy those, I also chose this field in part because I want a comfortable life. I enjoy CS, don't get me wrong, but I also enjoy history.

I think working for an employer because you identify with their “mission” is deeply unhealthy for both individual employees and for society at large. In almost all cases, employment should be a purely financial transaction, and if you’re looking for something “deeper” you should probably work for yourself or start a new company.

Or a non-profit organization.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#112

Post by listless » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:34 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #92

abatilo wrote: post #48

Oh, neat. Hi everyone. I made this website a few months ago. If there are questions or suggestions, happy to answer them. The website was covered in the wallstreet journal and a few other places: https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-companies-want-remote-work... Definitely overkill for the website itself but I also built it as a learning opportunity so it's a react frontend with Tailwindcss, Golang + gRPC gateway, hoste…

It's funny that idk if you're trying to shame these companies or the government of Colorado because either would make sense depending on your POV.

I kinda like that you can draw your own conclusion there. Makes the site more fun.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#113

Post by detaro » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

alleyshack wrote: post #102

Honest question, as this is related to something my company's HR department is grappling with (I am not involved, I'm just a lowly engineering manager): How does this law interact with companies whose pay range is location based? I.e., the starting salary band for a Silicon Valley-based candidate would take into account SF cost of living, and therefore be significantly higher on paper than the starting salary band fo…

Presumably you could list the entire range, assuming you can reasonably show that it actually is truthful when challenged. (potentially it could be an issue if the upper end is not available to all locations? Although I'd question if that is a sane policy to have either ways)

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#114

Post by duskwuff » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #95

abatilo wrote: post #48

Oh, neat. Hi everyone. I made this website a few months ago. If there are questions or suggestions, happy to answer them. The website was covered in the wallstreet journal and a few other places: https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-companies-want-remote-work... Definitely overkill for the website itself but I also built it as a learning opportunity so it's a react frontend with Tailwindcss, Golang + gRPC gateway, hoste…

Rackspace is doing it, and this tool isn't detecting it. https://jobs.lever.co/rackspace/d18e6926-5c2d-49fc-8553-ba61... >Position is available for remote work in the following states unless otherwise specified. Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mi…

Alaska is also excluded, so timezone/travel sounds pretty likely.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#115

Post by notahacker » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #72

thehappypm wrote: post #29

The Colorado law to me strikes me as a pretty huge government overreach. I fully believe in minimum wage laws, and that feels like an appropriate regulation to me, but this just feels like it's almost attacking these companies, interfering with their hiring processes, and I fully see why companies would rather not bother hiring in what boils down to 1 mid-sized metro area than deal with the consequences.

I think transparency laws are a lot more important than minimum-wage laws. Give people information and you give them options; they can see at a glance if there's a better job out there than their current position, and avoid wasting time applying to jobs that won't pay better. Force people not to work at certain prices and you take away options.

Minimum wage employees aren't earning minimum wage because they are unaware other jobs pay more, they're earning minimum wage because they're unable to get those jobs.

At that end of the market the pay rates are generally pretty transparent anyway, because there's no negotiation and no "10x dishwasher" that the company worries about deterring if they disclose what the existing staff earn.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#116

Post by smolder » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #92

abatilo wrote: post #48

Oh, neat. Hi everyone. I made this website a few months ago. If there are questions or suggestions, happy to answer them. The website was covered in the wallstreet journal and a few other places: https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-companies-want-remote-work... Definitely overkill for the website itself but I also built it as a learning opportunity so it's a react frontend with Tailwindcss, Golang + gRPC gateway, hoste…

It's funny that idk if you're trying to shame these companies or the government of Colorado because either would make sense depending on your POV.

Either or neither would make sense. They don't necessarily need some agenda beyond being informational, hard as that is to imagine.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#117

Post by runawaybottle » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #20

This is a predictable consequence of a shortsighted legal requirement. How many people will be deprived of work opportunities because of this law? How many jobs will Colorado lose over the next decade or more until the legislature realizes what they've done?

Depends on how the rest of the country plays it. We can leave Colorado devs for dead, or speak up about this practice and get the needed changes nationwide, fuck, even globally.

We’re all doing the same job, and I have no idea how the argument for geographic based pay holds water.

In a broader sense, this is one thing that can literally save the middle class. You can live anywhere, get the same pay rate, and actually buy that house in an affordable place instead of fighting for your life for your whole life.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#118

Post by imglorp » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #76

rebelde wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean avoid breaking the law. IANAL, but that ad without "no Colorado" might break the law.

They're avoiding the other elements of the law. It institutes a few other things besides just salary transparency. Companies also have to maintain a record of salaries/wages in order to prove they didn't discriminate based on sex and they have to announce advancement opportunities to existing employees (something many companies shy away from).

> have to announce advancement opportunities to existing employees (something many companies shy away from).

Why? Isn't hiring from within a win for employer and employee? I don't speak HR. Training up on culture and product is a huge deal sometimes.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#119

Post by unethical_ban » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #29

The Colorado law to me strikes me as a pretty huge government overreach. I fully believe in minimum wage laws, and that feels like an appropriate regulation to me, but this just feels like it's almost attacking these companies, interfering with their hiring processes, and I fully see why companies would rather not bother hiring in what boils down to 1 mid-sized metro area than deal with the consequences.

It it applying symmetry to an asymmetrical relationship.

One company can go pretty long without hiring a given position.

One person cannot go very long without taking a job.

It is a detriment to the worker to not have good salary information, and the cards are clearly stacked in the employers' favor. Thus, government action.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#120

Post by kelnos » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #53

kdmccormick wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain why minimum wage laws aren't overreach but this is?

I’ve come 180 on minimum wage. How can anyone come between me and another adult trying to exchange services and money like this? It’s kind of insane if you think about it through that lens.

Do you see a better solution to sweatshops and other indentured-servitude-like setups?

(If you don't think those sorts of things need solutions, then I expect we're not going to find any common ground, though.)

> It’s kind of insane if you think about it through that lens.

No, it's not. If that's the case, then you also have to believe that any kind of regulated commerce is insane, and I don't think that's a reasonable position to take.