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Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

coloradoexcluded.com

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Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#101

Post by ganoushoreilly »

snarf21 wrote: post #85
jefftk wrote: post #55

Context: Colorado’s Equal Pay Act requires jobs ads to list a salary range [1], which companies generally don't want to do. Excluding CO residents is one way companies are avoiding the law. [1] https://www.colorado.edu/hr/colorados-equal-pay-equal-work-a...

I'm curious if the other workaround will just be to have Junior Software Engineer I ($60K-$65K), JSE II ($65-70), etc. and post them all via the power of automation and just down qualify candidates from JSE VIII to JSE II because of the lack of 20 years experience in Rust. They still get to low-ball people. I really wish software had some more abstract certifications like other professions do, including things like j…

I think the trade style apprentice to journeyman process is great. I've seen it deployed in the govt and it worked quite well. I think it could be pretty helpful in a generalization sense, but we would run into issues with so many people doing things outside of one discipline.

Still, you have my vote!

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#102

Post by alleyshack »

Honest question, as this is related to something my company's HR department is grappling with (I am not involved, I'm just a lowly engineering manager): How does this law interact with companies whose pay range is location based? I.e., the starting salary band for a Silicon Valley-based candidate would take into account SF cost of living, and therefore be significantly higher on paper than the starting salary band for, say, an Arkansas-based candidate.

Obviously it would be impractical to list all the possible geo-based salary bands on a JD. Is the intent to "shame" such a company into picking a single salary range that doesn't take geo location into account?

I feel as though that would either lead to (1) everyone being paid Silicon Valley wages (which has a number of consequences of its own, both good and bad) or (2) companies which can only afford to do so for certain positions, losing out on otherwise qualified candidates who happen to live in a higher COL area.

I know there's an argument that if the company can't pay competitive wages, then they shouldn't be in business. But it feels like in case (1), candidates who live in high-COL areas are actually getting penalized. Some of them could move to lower-COL areas and get the net benefit, but others may not be able to move.

I don't know the answer here, but I'm curious to see how others in the industry are thinking about the situation.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#103

Post by splitstud »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #90
jefftk wrote: post #55

Context: Colorado’s Equal Pay Act requires jobs ads to list a salary range [1], which companies generally don't want to do. Excluding CO residents is one way companies are avoiding the law. [1] https://www.colorado.edu/hr/colorados-equal-pay-equal-work-a...

Doesn't this basically show the stupidity of local regulations? Make these kind of laws federal if you want them to stick or at least coordinate with the big states. Looking at Wikipedia Colorado doesn't have the economic power to dictate anything.

The problem is not with the jurisdiction, but with the regulation in this particular case

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#104

Post by macksd »

thehappypm wrote: post #29

The Colorado law to me strikes me as a pretty huge government overreach. I fully believe in minimum wage laws, and that feels like an appropriate regulation to me, but this just feels like it's almost attacking these companies, interfering with their hiring processes, and I fully see why companies would rather not bother hiring in what boils down to 1 mid-sized metro area than deal with the consequences.

If one believes in the theory of free markets, this moves the labor market closer to the ideal market by forcing more transparency. I don't like government overreach because it usually makes the market less efficient, but in this case I believe it's doing the opposite. Or at least, it WOULD be doing the opposite if it was universal, but it's not, so yeah some Prisoner's Dilemma-like game theory comes into play.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#105

Post by subsubzero »

I am pretty tired of the charade tech companies are trying to pull on employees in terms of hiding pay bands. I feel like employees from disadvantaged backgrounds get the brunt of this nonsense by having pay starting lower than they should have if they were informed. This Colorado law addresses this "bug".

And in case any of this sounds too reactionary I would look to the fact that some Govt. jobs/contractors are required to list pay bands for every position. example(see salary band): https://www.northropgrumman.com/jobs/San-Antonio-----TX/Engi...

You know right away if the pay matches what you are expecting, no crazy song and dance from a recruiter wasting your time.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#106

Post by fennecfoxen »

smoldesu wrote: post #67
whiddershins wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve come 180 on minimum wage. How can anyone come between me and another adult trying to exchange services and money like this? It’s kind of insane if you think about it through that lens.

It doesn't. If you wanna pay your neighbor's kid $15 for 3 hours of lawn mowing, you still can. Unmediated transactions of a certain scale don't require any government oversight, it's only when you start breaking out taxable income that it become a problem.

> If you wanna pay your neighbor's kid $15 for 3 hours of lawn mowing, you still can.

The fact that it isn't enforced doesn't make it not-illegal.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#108

Post by dmurray »

GoatOfAplomb wrote: post #62

One of the top results, Accenture, seems to have evolved to provide a very wide range for Colorado instead: "As required by the Colorado Equal Pay Transparency Act, Accenture provides a reasonable range of minimum compensation for roles that may be hired in Colorado. Actual compensation is influenced by a wide array of factors including but not limited to skill set, level of experience, and specific office location.…

That seems like a reasonable range, assuming the candidate really could have a wide range of levels of experience. Putting "20,000 - 300,000" would be taking the piss.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#109

Post by lotsofpulp »

notahacker wrote: post #73
lotsofpulp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My guess is it has less to do with laziness and more to do with the financial cost of opening yourself up to lawsuits if you can't prove the wage difference isn't due to sexual discrimination. Why would they not be equally open to that risk right now? I am not seeing any special connection between publicly listing a pay range and an applicant's gender.

Wouldn't it leave them open to "I have above the minimum qualifications and experience and yet your offer is near the bottom of the range, not near the top" discrimination suits (in addition to the status quo risk of lawsuits if the company actually does pay similarly qualified men more)

I do not know if that would be an issue, but I do see CountDrewku's point that the job listing itself might cause problems the way the law was enacted:

https://www.colorado.edu/hr/colorados-equal-pay-equal-work-a...

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