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Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

coloradoexcluded.com

81–90 of 207 posts

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#82
I have to admit I don't understand why companies are so opposed to this. Companies I've worked at have ranges of salary internally, which presumably they could share. The ranges are large enough that I think employees would struggle to use them to negotiate very well. And employees talk salary to each other and have other ways of getting that info anyway.

Edit: someone else pointed out that Accenture does this in one of their listings:

"For the state of Colorado only, the range of starting pay for this role is $58,700 - $94,1999" https://www.accenture.com/us-en/careers/jobdetails?id=964186...

Here we see there's even a benefit: Accenture will save time interviewing people who don't want to work for these horrible low wages.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#83
post #48

Oh, neat. Hi everyone. I made this website a few months ago. If there are questions or suggestions, happy to answer them. The website was covered in the wallstreet journal and a few other places: https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-companies-want-remote-work... Definitely overkill for the website itself but I also built it as a learning opportunity so it's a react frontend with Tailwindcss, Golang + gRPC gateway, hoste…

I clicked through some Accenture links (#2 on the list) and they clearly comply with the Colorado hiring law. They even have a section dedicated to the Colorado law and the wage range:

> As required by the Colorado Equal Pay Transparency Act, Accenture provides a reasonable range of minimum compensation for roles that may be hired in Colorado. Actual compensation is influenced by a wide array of factors including but not limited to skill set, level of experience, and specific office location. For the state of Colorado only, the range of starting pay for this role is {$215,000 - $324,999 } and information on benefits offered is here.

How are you generating this list? The first link I clicked on showed the exact opposite of excluding Colorado hiring due to the law. Are these listings compiled by searching for generic terms like “Colorado”? Is anyone verifying them?

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My guess is it has less to do with laziness and more to do with the financial cost of opening yourself up to lawsuits if you can't prove the wage difference isn't due to sexual discrimination. Why would they not be equally open to that risk right now? I am not seeing any special connection between publicly listing a pay range and an applicant's gender.

Because the jobs aren't open to CO residents. https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb19-085 Here's the bill's summary: >Wage discrimination based on sex - complaints - civil action - exceptions to prohibitions against wage differentials - prohibited acts of employer - employment announcements required - enforcement - rules. The act removes the authority of the director of the division of labor standards and statistics in t…

Ah, yes, I can see why that would be an issue. I was under the assumption liability possibilities would only start after someone was hired.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#85
post #55

Context: Colorado’s Equal Pay Act requires jobs ads to list a salary range [1], which companies generally don't want to do. Excluding CO residents is one way companies are avoiding the law. [1] https://www.colorado.edu/hr/colorados-equal-pay-equal-work-a...

I'm curious if the other workaround will just be to have Junior Software Engineer I ($60K-$65K), JSE II ($65-70), etc. and post them all via the power of automation and just down qualify candidates from JSE VIII to JSE II because of the lack of 20 years experience in Rust. They still get to low-ball people. I really wish software had some more abstract certifications like other professions do, including things like journey-man drywaller.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#86

This is a great list of companies that I will avoid applying for. I don’t live in Colorado, but there’s something kind of I don’t know, petulant? Childish? Willfully insulting? to the phrase “ Remote work location is flexible if approved by the Company, except that position can not be performed remotely from Colorado.” I think what really sticks in my craw about that statement is that it’s a bold-faced lie. If a comp…

That was my feeling as well. They don't like the rules of the game, so they're taking their ball and going home. It's always really telling to me when a company tries to avoid a law that genuinely provides for a more level playing field for existing and/or potential employees. I don't live in CO, so this wouldn't affect me, but seeing a company take this attitude is a red flag about their take on the employer-employee relationship. And as a software developer, I'm lucky that demand is high enough that I have no need to bother with companies who wear red flags like that on their sleeves for all to see.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#87
post #65

From the signed law: "(2) AN EMPLOYER SHALL DISCLOSE IN EACH POSTING FOR EACH JOB OPENING THE HOURLY OR SALARY COMPENSATION, OR A RANGE OF THE HOURLY OR SALARY COMPENSATION, AND A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF ALL OF THE BENEFITS AND OTHER COMPENSATION TO BE OFFERED TO THE HIRED APPLICANT. " Nowhere in the document do they define the term "range". If an employer wants to discriminate, couldn't they just give a wide range? h…

Yes they could theoretically, but the problem is if you put "$0.00-$100,000.00 salary" people will assume you're trying to rope them in with a high potential number and then give you as little as possible. You'd get around the law, but you'd also get most potential applicants to say "fuck that" and you're more likely to get unqualified people apply, which is worse than not getting anybody to apply at all.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary ranges are typically pretty wide though so I'm not sure how much secret info this will leak.

The advertised minimum pay is what matters, as employers will have to increase the minimum pay to attract more and/or quality job applicants.

Only if the advertised minimum has to be the actual minimum someone at the company is making, and not a theoretical minimum that the salary band encompasses.

Because if it's a theoretical minimum, I don't care about it; I want to know what the maximum is. If it's an actual minimum, I also don't care about it, but the person earning that might.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#90
post #55

Context: Colorado’s Equal Pay Act requires jobs ads to list a salary range [1], which companies generally don't want to do. Excluding CO residents is one way companies are avoiding the law. [1] https://www.colorado.edu/hr/colorados-equal-pay-equal-work-a...

Doesn't this basically show the stupidity of local regulations? Make these kind of laws federal if you want them to stick or at least coordinate with the big states. Looking at Wikipedia Colorado doesn't have the economic power to dictate anything.
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