The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated • Hacker News Board

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#351

Post by godshatter » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:28 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #242

heh9001 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything you see on the front page of youtube, i.e. you didn't specifically search for it, is most likely being promoted by some ad agency or think tank somewhere down the line. Meaning it's propaganda to some extent. The exceptions to this rule are, of course, independent creators that the algorithm latches onto, but the algorithm only promotes videos that people are gonna click on and generate revenue for Youtube.…

I see "African grey parrot singing along to I can see clearly now", "Cucumbers are cat's enemy - Funny Pet Reaction | Purr Purr", "Cockatoo Farts and Runs Away", "House Relax: Ed Sheeran, Martin Garrix, Kygo, Dua Lipa, Avicii, The...", "Venezuela 1-3 Argentina | Eliminatorias a Qatar 2022 -...", etc. This is because yesterday I looked at videos of Alex the African grey parrot. As far as I can tell, there are no ad ag…

I see the "House Relax" one when I go to YouTube in a private window without signing in. It seems to be one of the "stock" links that YouTube shows complete newbies that have never been there before (as far as it knows), so I'm guessing it's pretty strongly advertised presumably at the behest of the ad agencies.

I do, always, see three or four covid-19 videos when I go to the main YT page. Whatever you think about their message, they look like propaganda to me.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#352

Post by didibus » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #346

didibus wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but how do you reconcile that with the fact that hate speech and propaganda has been a part of almost all atrocities ever done in the past? Or put some other way, how do you reconcile that your freedom can be affected by someone's else's freedom? Like what if I use my freedom to turn others against you and have them hate you and berate you and bully you and ridicule you and refute you, and potentially have them…

Not the OP, but basically you are complaining about humans . I am not convinced that by banning certain expressions you get any security against future oppression. Stupid hateful people might get trapped by anti-hate-speech laws, but the smarter ones, precisely the ones you need to be careful about, are fairly good at avoiding them and may even use the threat of prosecution to raise sympathy from the part of populati…

I see your point, and I think that needs thoughts for sure.

I think most people (including myself) don't know why some harbor hateful resentment and intolerant ideals. And it isn't clear how to deal with it. It's very possible that we need to resist the temptation to try and simply brush those people aside. But I think one thing that isn't clear is if one of the cause for this increase is related to the internet providing bigger megaphones to those smart ones who like to recruit members to their ranks.

And part of that for me is how recommendation algorithms on Twitter and Facebook and YouTube operate, it seems to be tuned towards sensationalized and hateful content. So it does give you the impression that those platforms are failing to educate people with values of tolerance, liberalism, freedom, and individual rights which the USA is founded on.

It's a great question though, you probably don't fight intolerance with intolerance, but at the same time, you might need to be ready to fight it if it comes to that. But how do you avoid having it reach this point?

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#353

Post by _ea1k » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:34 PM UTC

OldTimeCoffee wrote: post #155

vorpalhex wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling ivermectin horse dewormer is like calling penicillin cow antibiotics or fish tank saver. It's in significant use in humans.

It's in significant use in humans as a dewormer, though. It's used in humans to treat river blindness which is caused by a worm. It's also used for the prevention of worms in dogs. It's fair to call it a dewormer, even if you disagree with including the 'horse' part. It's not an anti-viral in any sense of the word.

Ok, I'll be more specific. Using the word "horse" is like calling other medications that are used on people and dogs as "dog" medicine.

The qualifier is not necessary. Truthfully, they should just call it ivermectin and describe what it actually is, how it has actually been used, and the current state of research showing that currently has little proof of effectiveness though there are trials ongoing.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#354

Post by floatingatoll » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

grishka wrote: post #244

comeonseriously wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algorithms don't warn. Nor do they communicate. They just delete.

So maybe make all algorithm-generated decisions be vetted by a human.

The labor costs of that would destroy Google and Facebook. What a beautiful thing it would be to see, though.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#355

Post by tick_tock_tick » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

BizarroLand wrote: post #279

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go and actually read Popper and you'll find he was close to a free speak maximalist his views on when you shouldn't "tolerate" intolerance was an incredibly high bar that almost nothing ever hits.

So, I should read 25 books to verify that your one sentence claim is valid? Why not back that up with some relevant quotes to support your thesis, friend? That seems a decent thing to do compared to the litany of homework you callously threw at me.

What the hell kind of response is this? You try to puppet Popper's work, I tell you that's not at all what he said, you affirm you never read any of it and complain it's unreasonable to expect you to read it.........

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#356

Post by kbenson » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #303

BizarroLand wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I should read 25 books to verify that your one sentence claim is valid? Why not back that up with some relevant quotes to support your thesis, friend? That seems a decent thing to do compared to the litany of homework you callously threw at me.

>> Go and actually read Popper and you'll find he was close to a free speak maximalist his views on when you shouldn't "tolerate" intolerance was an incredibly high bar that almost nothing ever hits. > So, I should read 25 books to verify that your one sentence claim is valid? > Why not back that up with some relevant quotes to support your thesis, friend? That seems a decent thing to do compared to the litany of hom…

> Your snark isn't warranted.

Honestly, given the comment being replied to started with "go and actually read" I think the snark is warranted if they want. Also, for what it's worth I think they were trying to modulate that snark a bit by using "friend".

If it's truly easy to realize what is being asked, a pointer in the right direction is useful. If it does require a lot of work, then providing some evidence to at least get someone started if not an actual reference would be called for.

In any case, I'm not sure a comment that boils down to "if you actually read X, you'd know that what you just said is wrong" is worth defending, regardless of whether you think it's factually correct or not. You could have just pointed out that there was evidence of this position and left it at that.

For what it's worth, I only bothered to reply because you're not the only person that took the comment that way. The strongest possible interpretation of the prior comment is "This isn't helpful to me. If you're going to state I'm wrong, please provide more information on how so I can address that usefully" which I think is a vary valid complaint to what it was responding to. Interpreting snark where it doesn't necessarily exist or providing additional snark in your own in response (not that you did this) isn't a useful way to move the discourse forward.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#357

Post by iotku » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:43 PM UTC

joe_guy wrote: post #338

iotku wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that while based on LBRY (The supposedly censorship resistant blockchain protocol) Odysee is a bit more opinionated front end with restrictions on things such as pornography. By the standards of "alternative" video sites there's a pretty diverse set of content including mirrors from some well known YouTube creators (KhanAcademy, EEVBlog, GreatScott, Veritasium, HarwareUnboxed, Not Just Bikes, EposVo…

> Given goals towards freedom of speech, some content won't align with you politically (and some might), but there's enough decent content that you can potentially use it as an alternative platform successfully. I find high curation is the only way I find a service like YouTube to be usable. There's an endless sea of content on there. It's not important that I agree with it or not, it's important if it's quality, whi…

>I'm looking at the landing page of odysee now. [...]

I think your examples are a valid criticism, it's just that many of the alternatives are far worse (depending on your standpoint)

FWIW I would suggest looking at the home page of YouTube in incognito mode, most of the videos don't meet my quality standards either.

* TikToks that will get you in trouble

* Medical Emergencies: When Acts Go Horribly WRONG!

* Family Guy roasting every country

>I can't block these channels or show disinterest even though I made an account.

Yeah I think appropriate filtering options are vital for less curated platforms to be more usable. That's not an impossible problem to solve, but I would have expected better options by now.

>My issue isn't the politicalness, it's quality and relevance.

I think it's mainly a chicken and egg problem, there's not as much quality content as I'd prefer so there's less relevant quality content.

My biggest hope is that a certain threshold can be met where more quality content will be added and people aren't scared by the preexisting lower quality content that they don't want to be associated with.

There's definitely a need for there to be some competition to YouTube (Google et al.), but it's a pretty large hill to overcome to get there.

Of course YouTube still has a very strong hand in regards to monetization.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#358

Post by skinkestek » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:46 PM UTC

nabakin wrote: post #293

Channel has been reinstated! https://twitter.com/thelinuxEXP/status/1435311971973406726 I want to know what happened for Google to make such a serious mistake.

> I want to know what happened for Google to make such a serious mistake.

Remember, this is Google. They do everything automatically including messing up big time.

Needing a human in the loop to mess up big time wouldn't scale, at least not web scale.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#359

Post by kingTug » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

pohl wrote: post #144

rjbwork wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch a lot of lefty "news" and infotainment. I still get ads for the conservative propaganda, survival rations, prepping, etc. I think it's because I also watch a lot of firearms hobby content. Kinda silly, but it does make me chuckle that people like Ben Shapiro, PragerU, and 4Patriots are subsidizing my lefty youtube subscriptions.

I mostly consume guitar technique & music theory videos, yet I still see ads suggesting I might want to buy & bury a plastic tote full of MREs out in the wilderness just in case. Maybe it's because I live in Nebraska? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Same here, 95% of my YT consumption is related to advanced music theory. The (constant) ads that drive me up a wall are the "learn to play guitar" services that feature children practicing their first guitar notes. Ive heard this from other musicians too - the algorithm thinks everyone is a novice.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#360

Post by tedivm » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #168

tedivm wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these platforms start off trying to be content neutral and end up adding more moderation as a result of how badly it ends up hurting them. There's only so many times advertisers are willing to have their brand shown next to child pornography (ie, reddit's former /r/jailbait) or hate speech. If complete neutrality was an answer these companies would be doing that, since it's the cheapest option.

I greatly dislike the conflation of things like jailbait (which is mostly provocative clothed images taken voluntarily by teens) and classic child pornography where a 6 year old is brutally raped. One is harmless the other involves lifelong trauma.

That subreddit was exploiting children for sexual gratification. It wasn't just teens, and it wasn't people posting purposefully provocative images. It was children living their normal lives and having their pictures exploited for the sexual gratification of perverts.

Calling this harmless is absolutely disgusting.