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ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

theregister.com

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Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#221

Post by lrae »

Sebb767 wrote: post #109
destitude wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the perception they gave that state if you were being monitored you would be notified? The part not made clear was that they could delay notifying you for months.

They did make it clear and did so before this outcry: > Swiss law requires a user to be notified if a third party makes a request for their private data and such data is to be used in a criminal proceeding. However, in certain situations, notification can be delayed. This includes the following cases [...] From https://web.archive.org/web/20210724054806/https://protonmai... (under "ProtonMail User Notification Policy…

I think he is talking about the CEOs blog post, where he does not make that clear and absolutely creates the impression that the French activist received a notification. It even sounds like that you get a notification as soon as somebody just requests it, even if PM declines / fights it. [0]

> Under Swiss law, it is obligatory for a user to be notified if a third party makes a request for their private data and such data is to be used in a criminal proceeding.

People will read this and the majority will think there is some kind of notification as soon as that happens. I mean, users here on HN thought that. Only if you click the link, the one that you shared, then you'll know that there are multiple situations where that notification will be delayed.

I think that is actually the worst part about the whole situation so far. One can argue that they should've made the potential logging more clear right under their no logs marketing. But pretty much doing the same stunt again with the notification, does feel a bit like intent... or stupidity.

0: https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#222

Post by bluGill »

chii wrote: post #189
bluGill wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to grow big enough that by the time anyone thinks cutting your links you are big enough that you can't fail. I have no idea how to pull that off.

> I have no idea how to pull that off. you start with a military force that is enough to prevent another sovereign nation from doing something bad like cutting off your comm link, or forcing or freezing your bank account...

Sure, but I have no idea how to pull that off. I have lots of other ideas that should work, but I don't know how to pull any of them off in practice.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#223

Post by baobabKoodaa »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #46
rawbot wrote: post #28

So they "don't log your IP", until the first time someone challenged that statement. Talk is cheap.

ProtonMail has always said that they would comply with Swiss law. Your IP will not be logged unless you commit a crime in Switzerland and the swiss police hands in a request.

> unless you commit a crime

Right, because the police would never persecute someone who didn't commit a crime, is that right?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#224

Post by unethical_ban »

NmAmDa wrote: post #103
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise of "we'll never log your IPs" is something that no company can hold. - Local law enforcement can force the to do so. - Locals laws can change. - Guys with guns might barge in and demand it. Mostly, you can understand that they don't _intend_ to log IPs, and aren't in the business of collecting and redistributing data. But that doesn't mean you can count on absolute and unconditional secrecy.

I think signal approach is the best. You can't be forced to turn in something you don't have.

The only way to avoid having your IP logged is for there not to be an organization that can be forced to log it.

So long as a company exists in a world controlled by US/European finance or is in their borders, they can be compelled to log what they are told to.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#225

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

The whole clarification they wrote was "As a Swiss company, they must comply with Swiss law when it relates to a Swiss citizen."

So if you're not a swiss citizen, you've got nothing to worry about. The only thing they did different was notify the person they were being investigated and then began tracking. That's the major difference.

It's not like some random company can just skirt all laws globally for the sake of privacy.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#226

Post by bluGill »

ghaff wrote: post #118
bluGill wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to grow big enough that by the time anyone thinks cutting your links you are big enough that you can't fail. I have no idea how to pull that off.

I would think being bigger makes you more of a target not less.

There is a limit to that. North Korea does a lot of things that no government likes, but so far they are okay. There are a lot of bigger countries that have even more immunity to targeting.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#227

Post by racl101 »

plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

Yep.

We all saw the Wolf of Wallstreet.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#228

Post by tablespoon »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #202
plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

Yeah I also bought a lifetime plan from that cloud storage company few years ago, scammed by the marketing page, only to find out somewhere in the settings page that my data were never in switzerland or even in EU but were physically in US, and had to pay to move them to EU, just deleted my account, I guess the swiss thing is just a marketing scam

>> In one example, it's a cloud storage company, they say on their marketing page and their about page that they are based in Switzerland and under Swiss law, but if you look at the legal pages the company you sign up with are actually based in Bulgaria. Their servers are based in Texas, USA and Luxemburg, Europe and their development team in Bulgaria.

> Yeah I also bought a lifetime plan from that cloud storage company few years ago, scammed by the marketing page, only to find out somewhere in the settings page that my data were never in switzerland or even in EU but were physically in US

Anyone want to name names?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#229

Post by simplyinfinity »

bluetomcat wrote: post #204
simplyinfinity wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their development team in Bulgaria. I don't see them having offices in Bulgaria. However they have offices in North Macedonia.

The founder and CTO, Anton Titov, is a Russian who moved to Bulgaria at age 8: https://cloudstorageinfo.org/interview-with-anton-titov-pclo...

I have 2 friends that worked for pCloud in Sofia, but don't know anyone who has worked for proton in Bulgaria. I can't find anyone from Bulgaria working crently for proton via linkedin

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#230

Post by audiometry »

plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

Switzerland deserves no brand for secrecy. USA broke their back. They opened their private banking. Their Crypto AG was totally rooted.
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