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ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

theregister.com

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Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#201

Post by sschueller »

vanilla-almond wrote: post #84
plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

I also dislike companies that use the label 'Made in [country]' as a prominent hook to promise users they will get enhanced privacy - which may or may not be true. I'd rather they be honest and say: these are the examples when we must comply with the law and must hand over the following details. We all need to make our own evaluation of the privacy promises of those services and whether they actually provide privacy…

Made in Switzerland has strict rules as to what percentage (at least 50% for most items, 80% for certain food items) is actually made here. Unlike "based" which just means there is an office or mailbox.

[1] https://bestswiss.ch/swissness-gesetzgebung-marke-schweiz

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#202

Post by lnxg33k1 »

plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

Yeah I also bought a lifetime plan from that cloud storage company few years ago, scammed by the marketing page, only to find out somewhere in the settings page that my data were never in switzerland or even in EU but were physically in US, and had to pay to move them to EU, just deleted my account, I guess the swiss thing is just a marketing scam

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#203

Post by praptak »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #174
teekert wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought those impenetrable looking mountains were part of their datacenter defenses.

Nope, that is what you need to scale to reach their customer support.

So this is what scalability means.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#204

Post by bluetomcat »

simplyinfinity wrote: post #164
plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

> their development team in Bulgaria. I don't see them having offices in Bulgaria. However they have offices in North Macedonia.

The founder and CTO, Anton Titov, is a Russian who moved to Bulgaria at age 8:

https://cloudstorageinfo.org/interview-with-anton-titov-pclo...

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#205

Post by mark_l_watson »

ProtonMail is my main e-mail, so I am positively biased in their favor.

I think their advertising copy about not logging IP addresses was poorly done, but their service is private enough for me. It probably doesn’t much matter or make much difference, but I feel OK with using their service, and tweaking my account settings for Google and Apple to the minimum amount of data retention.

I feel that people who let corporations easily have all of their data put themselves at a disadvantage when it comes to any interaction between yourself and any large company (insurance, retail, etc.). Governments will always have our private information so the real purpose of privacy is economic value.

Imagine playing poker with your friends and you had to have your cards face up on the table and they could keep their cards hidden from you. In this example, your friends are corporations.

EDIT: Carissa Véliz, author of Privacy is Power, was interviewed recently on the ProtonMail blog, and I think the interview does a good job of summarizing her excellent book: https://protonmail.com/blog/carissa-veliz-data-privacy/

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#206

Post by Qub3d »

rpadovani wrote: post #73
livinginfear wrote: post #50

The expectation that Proton would be able to disobey the legal requests of their local authorities with impunity is unrealistic. Protonmail makes certain claims about privacy, particularly about encryption. They don't make any claims that they have the intention, or ability for that matter, to defy local authorities at their peril. Like Grugq said in one of his presentations (paraphrased): "Don't expect your VPN comp…

This. If you pay ProtonMail, you don't have your emails automatically scanned by some company to show you advertisements, and you have encryption at rest. That's all.

But if that is all we can realistically expect, there are objectively better providers.

That's ultimately why I cancelled my PM subscription and went elsewhere.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#207

Post by AcerbicZero »

chii wrote: post #189
bluGill wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to grow big enough that by the time anyone thinks cutting your links you are big enough that you can't fail. I have no idea how to pull that off.

> I have no idea how to pull that off. you start with a military force that is enough to prevent another sovereign nation from doing something bad like cutting off your comm link, or forcing or freezing your bank account...

A small and geographically distributed nuclear arsenal would also be a good starting point if you wanted to avoid having the large standing army needed for conventional deterrence.

Still doesn’t solve the banking issues, but one problem at a time I suppose.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#208

Post by kepler1 »

ajay-b wrote: post #6

This is just ridiculous.. If they receive a notice to log your IP address, they should notify you first. My trust in ProtonMail is gone.

So, if someone is under investigation for criminal activity, you think they should be given advance warning of such?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#209

Post by cbg0 »

_gohp wrote: post #198
plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

True, the swiss government has bent over in all directions imaginable regarding the banking secret once a powerful enough entity pressured them. Forget hosting, VPNs or email providers from Switzerland. It's exactly true, companies incorporate there due to tax laws, even Phillip Morris is there.

"Bent over in all directions" is a bit of an exaggeration, most countries nowadays abide by various conventions to prevent money laundering & terrorism funding, since the G7 founded the FATF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Action_Task_Force

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#210

Post by teekert »

dsign wrote: post #76
teekert wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you protect your own IP, I wonder if ProtonVPN could have done that? Would have been a nice test of those claims as well. All in all, I still trust ProtonMail, they are handling this quite well and transparently. Their original messaging was probably a compromise between getting the message out there and leaving some room for things like this. Arguably that was a mistake, or maybe with the whole truth in bold on t…

I agree that they are a great email provider, the lesser evil, and I myself use a paid plan. But I believe that, as a society, we are rolling down a slippery slope where digital privacy becomes more difficult everyday. A couple of weeks ago, it was Apple announcing that they will spy by default in all of their customers via the iPhones because of child pornography. Apple has spent galleons of gold marketing itself as…

Their intentions are good, the law is vague and easy to abuse and we slide down that slippery slope. Don't blame PM for having to adhere to the law. In their latest announcements they advise you to use TOR, then you won't have this problem and your emails will be encrypted beyond anyone's reach. Well... [0]

[0]: https://xkcd.com/538/

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