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ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

theregister.com

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Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#111

Post by underseacables »

nvarsj wrote: post #90
segfaultbuserr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there is a market for datacenters in open seas. Sealand's HavenCo tried it back in the 2000s. As it turned out, it didn't work well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo See: Death of a data haven: cypherpunks, WikiLeaks, and the world’s smallest nation https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/sealand-and-have...

I find Sealand fascinating. Imagine founding an off-grid location as a data haven, and it got popular. What would happen? I can see covert operations from foreign governments happening for example, driven by copyright lobbyists. Would they then need to hire security forces or train their own armed forces? Would it eventually join global political organizations to influence and protect its position? It gets really int…

Let us suppose for a moment that you could put a ship out in the sea, using solar panels and wind power, and satellites, you could provide a service. It might not be a service that’s always available, or all that fast, but it is technically feasible.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#112

Post by cf_ »

qwertox wrote: post #33
aero-glide2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, ProtonVPN isn't subject to the same problem (according to the CEO).

Care to share more information about this?

I assume what they mean is that - they might have to log connections to their service (like with ProtonMail), but they won't have to provide what data that user account has accessed through the service, same as they didn't provide the actual emails of the account in question, but "just" the connecting IP.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#113

Post by eplanit »

I can't imagine running an internet based service and not logging IP addresses. How else do you debug issues or isolate malicious users, etc. Does anyone think it's realistic (or even responsible) to not log basic info?

I don't use PM, but it seems their product is end to end email encryption, not complete web anonymity. Maybe those wanting to add anonymity should access it via tor (if PM allows it).

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#114

Post by ducktective »

cpach wrote: post #98

For secure communications it’s much better to use Signal than e-mail. (Preferably with disappearing messages.) I understand that people desire the UX of an e-mail client such as Thunderbird, Mail.app, Gmail or whatever. Nothing wrong with wanting that. But there is currently no good way to send e-mail securely.

What about Matrix?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#115

Post by Verdex »

My day to day life is pretty boring, but occasionally I'll imagine what I would need to do if I ever had to get out a secret message out where it was important that it couldn't be traced back to me.

It always ends up being something like, "Well, I could buy a bunch of raspberry PIs with cash and then go to a coffee shop that I never go to and upload the message to a gmail account that I'll only ever use once. Throw the PI away afterwards in a random trash can in town and make sure to wear gloves every time I touch it. Finally use some sort of encryption scheme or something so I can identify myself for repeated correspondences because each time will be with a different one shot email account."

It turns out that this isn't some fanciful paranoia, but is in fact the bare minimum of what I should be doing if something like that ever came up.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#116

Post by laurent123456 »

plater wrote: post #34

Be careful when companies market themselves as Swiss or that due to them being located in Switzerland means there is some extra layer of security or privacy. Sure, it's a more stable country than many other countries in the world, but not much different from most EU countries for example. And privacy wise there is no difference. Be also aware of the fact that many companies market themselves as Swiss, but all it mean…

> In one example, it's a cloud storage company, they say on their marketing page and their about page that they are based in Switzerland and under Swiss law, but if you look at the legal pages the company you sign up with are actually based in Bulgaria. Their servers are based in Texas, USA and Luxemburg, Europe and their development team in Bulgaria.

Just out of curiosity, in this kind of situation what laws actually apply? Wouldn't that be the Bulgarian laws?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#117

Post by qwertox »

lrae wrote: post #51
qwertox wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share more information about this?

Probably refers to this: > Under current Swiss law, email and VPN are treated differently, and ProtonVPN cannot be compelled to log user data. https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/

I wonder if this only applies to their VPN servers in Switzerland.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#118

Post by ghaff »

bluGill wrote: post #108
ghaff wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Sealand/HavenCo could Play their micronation thing right up until the UK cut their supply and comms links. Does it raise the bar for bothering to do that? Sure. But it’s certainly not absolute protection.

The trick is to grow big enough that by the time anyone thinks cutting your links you are big enough that you can't fail. I have no idea how to pull that off.

I would think being bigger makes you more of a target not less.

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#119

Post by snet0 »

Verdex wrote: post #115

My day to day life is pretty boring, but occasionally I'll imagine what I would need to do if I ever had to get out a secret message out where it was important that it couldn't be traced back to me. It always ends up being something like, "Well, I could buy a bunch of raspberry PIs with cash and then go to a coffee shop that I never go to and upload the message to a gmail account that I'll only ever use once. Throw t…

Coffee shops have CCTV, no?

Re: ProtonMail deletes 'we don't log your IP' from website after activist arrested

#120

Post by Sebb767 »

occamrazor wrote: post #63
shafyy wrote: post #43

I see many comments here that seem to be uninformed. Please, make sure to ProtonMail's official statement first. It includes a lot of important background info: https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/ For example, this paragraph is important: > Unlike other providers, we do fight on behalf of our users. Few people know this (it’s in our transparency report), but we actually fought over 700 cases in 2020…

They also say that they had no idea about the identity of the activist and the charges against them. That means that the information was not provided in the warrant/police request, and thus that they can’t or don’t want to look into the merits of any requests. My hypothesis is that the 700 cases they mention are requests from _foreign_ authorities, to whom they answer that they need the request to come through Swiss…

> My hypothesis is that the 700 cases they mention are requests from _foreign_ authorities, to whom they answer that they need the request to come through Swiss authorities.

They can also fight against Swiss authorities, unless they come with a court+gag order.

Anyway, I believe them that the do their best to protect their customers, but it's simply not an option to break the law. And they never promised to do so; in fact, they quite clearly state that they don't.

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