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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

economist.com

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#741

Post by artificialLimbs »

Zababa wrote: post #683
karmelapple wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a few concrete examples of large groups strongly advocating for equality of outcomes? I’ve had discussions about “equality” with folks aligned across the political spectrum, and most everyone agrees they want equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. I’m confused about who or what group is speaking about people desiring equality of outcome. And discriminating against other people because of their…

Aren't many groups advocating for quotas? In France, it's a thing now to try to always have as much women as men in groups, especially those with high prestige (government, board of directors, etc). I don't know if it's precisely a few groups advocating for it, but it's now a thing most people expect. That's for me an example of equality of outcomes and not of oppurtunity.

A friend of mine applied to VMWare a year or two ago. They were asking him all sorts of questions about various disabilities; are you deaf? Do you use a wheelchair, etc..

The recruiter told him directly that they were looking for people with disabilities to fill their quota of people with disabilities, necessary because it was a government position. So we're definitely out of the game of recruiting based on merit in at least some government spots, and instead focused on unrelated favoritism.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#742

Post by cloudfifty »

zpeti wrote: post #719
cloudfifty wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves No, it isn't. Its core is to enforce private property rights? That will very likely not translate into "letting everyone be themselves".

If a group wants to organise a non property right town or city or country, that’s fine by libertarians. If everyone is making that choice freely. So freedom is the core. What you are talking about is more Austrian economics.

> What you are talking about is more Austrian economics.

No, it's just the what libertarianism means 99 times out of a 100 when talking on HN or well, just Americans in general.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#743

Post by zzzeek »

zpeti wrote: post #694
brokencode wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, what libertarians really want is freedom for themselves. They do not actually care how their actions affect others. For example, I’ve yet to meet a libertarian who cares about their carbon emissions, even though that affects everybody else via climate change. Same goes for coronavirus - they don’t care if they spread the disease to others, but they feel like it’s oppression if they have to wear a…

The ACLU supported the rights of neo nazis to protest in a Jewish neighborhood. While not strictly a libertarian organisation, that is exactly the attitude. And libertarians would support that too. The rights of others to be free just like myself. It’s not selfish in any way. And you should read up about why the aclu did this, they say some very relevant things to today.

Assuming I were part of an identity group such as Judaism, this would mean parades of people who want to murder me and my family being welcome outside my door to shout for hours of their intent, with no possibility of relief. sign me up for libertarianism!

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#744

Post by jhgb »

joshuaissac wrote: post #529
rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gendered nouns are kind of silly and antiquated when you think about it though, and many languages have a neuter gender too (e.g. German). The "X" suffix is an attempt by younger Spanish speakers to introduce a neuter gender to their native language. English doesn't have gendered nouns, but we do have gendered pronouns, which not all languages have. Chinese doesn't have gendered pronouns, which is why you'll often he…

> The "X" suffix is an attempt by younger Spanish speakers to introduce a neuter gender to their native language. Did it really come from native Spanish speakers or is it an exonym? It is not the preferred term for the vast majority of Hispanic people even in the US.[1] > Today, young English speakers are trying to popularize "they" as an English neuter pronoun A Comedy of Errors (William Shakespeare, c.1594), Act 4,…

>> There's not a man I meet but doth salute me. As if I were their well-acquainted friend

> Singular 'they' even when the gender is known has been popular in the English language for hundreds of years. Even longer than singular 'you'.

It seems to me that the negation qualifies your Shakespeare example for OED's explanation of "I. 2. Often used in reference to a singular noun made universal by every, any, no, etc., or applicable to one of either sex (= ‘he or she’)." That is distinct from a reference to a single, specific individual, which using "they" as a singular gender-non-specific pronoun with unrestricted usage would necessarily include (things like "Peter said *they wanted some tea"). Presumably this is what was meant by GP.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#745

Post by throwaway210222 »

JanneVee wrote: post #654
BEEdwards wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I went to a very white, quite red Virginia public school 30 years ago and nobody ever told me about brown skin being bad. Then you got very very lucky. It has been an issue for a very long time. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/09/coloris... it was a problem long before the modern era. https://www.naacpldf.org/ldf-celebrates-60th-anniversary-bro... Preparing kids for the real world seems like a good…

So your response to a person with brown skin say that their experience doesn't matter? Why doesn't it matter because you read that they where lucky or that you experienced something different?

> … or that you experienced something different?

Surely that makes it 1:1 ? A tie, a dead-heat.

Unless once person's anecdotes count more? Is that what you want?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#746

Post by brokencode »

zpeti wrote: post #694
brokencode wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, what libertarians really want is freedom for themselves. They do not actually care how their actions affect others. For example, I’ve yet to meet a libertarian who cares about their carbon emissions, even though that affects everybody else via climate change. Same goes for coronavirus - they don’t care if they spread the disease to others, but they feel like it’s oppression if they have to wear a…

The ACLU supported the rights of neo nazis to protest in a Jewish neighborhood. While not strictly a libertarian organisation, that is exactly the attitude. And libertarians would support that too. The rights of others to be free just like myself. It’s not selfish in any way. And you should read up about why the aclu did this, they say some very relevant things to today.

This doesn’t contradict my point. Yes, libertarians believe everybody should have the same freedoms, and that’s commendable. But like I was saying, they often stop short of caring how their actions affect others, and that is inherently selfish.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#747

Post by cloudfifty »

beerandt wrote: post #718
cloudfifty wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves No, it isn't. Its core is to enforce private property rights? That will very likely not translate into "letting everyone be themselves".

Private property rights, or being manifestly in control of the fruits of ones labor. Or the exact opposite of slavery.

How does "this land is mine now, you can work on it to feed yourself" translate somehow into the opposite of slavery?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#748

Post by politician »

andreskytt wrote: post #54
enkid wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identitarian does not mean what you think it means. In fact, it's basically the exact opposite. I also have no idea what you mean when you say it has no ability to change anything. Are you talking about identity politics? Politics that specifically aim to better the position of people in certain subgroups? Because there are many political movements that have been wildly successful in doing that, women's suffrage, the…

I don’t think these movements have been based on identity but rather the concept of lacking something. This group lacks X, thus we should seek to give them X. But X does not necessarily equal the identity. What I find heartbreaking in all this identity issue is the ever-increasing number of dimensions. Simple math shows that at about 20 or so there’s going to be about one gender identity per person or two. Which is a…

It's a prison for the mind.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#749

Post by aeQu5igh »

sarahjosh wrote: post #736
platz wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

proceeds to detail conspiracy

It’s not really a conspiracy as it doesn’t need to be centralized. Class resentment articles don’t get traction with upper class media gatekeepers but white guilt does. So the market produces what the gatekeepers want.

This was, quite ironically, often missed by critics of feminism. They would say: What do you mean, a secret conspiracy by all men in a smoke-filled room to keep all women down? As if there was no such thing as incentives and soft power.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#750

Post by knightofmars »

zpeti wrote: post #719
cloudfifty wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves No, it isn't. Its core is to enforce private property rights? That will very likely not translate into "letting everyone be themselves".

If a group wants to organise a non property right town or city or country, that’s fine by libertarians. If everyone is making that choice freely. So freedom is the core. What you are talking about is more Austrian economics.

>If a group wants to organize a non property right town or city or country, that’s fine by libertarians.

https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-int...

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