Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

news.ycombinator.com

91–100 of 421 posts

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#91
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they would be able to do anything about it, since (from what I could infer from reading) it is zero-knowledge, so no one from the company can access the pictures. I might be wrong, though

Well, depending on legislation, they could be ordered to change the code to send the user password to them on next login for that account and then decrypt everything…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#92
post #76
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Synology Photos is one such solution already for example.

I have Synology, actually. Is Synology Photos trustable?

The software with these features is called Synology Moments. I use it and I mostly love it, at the very least as a backup for my Google Photos.

My experience is that it works great, provided that you're on your local network. When away from home or traveling, less so. Maybe I could configure things better to alleviate that, I don't know, but I haven't managed to yet.

Sharing is less convenient. Trying to share a photo on-platform is a terrible experience for the receiver with multiple slow redirects, so much so that generally if you're on mobile it's easier/better to just download the photo to your device and share the photo directly. The Moments android app has a flow for doing this, which is nice. It also makes a certain amount of sense: the alternative would be others connecting to your NAS online, which is always going to be less nice than just connecting to Google photos.

The search capabilities are pretty decent. It can recognize people and tag them appropriately. It can recognize some things. In some ways, I prefer searching it over searching Google Photos. But again, only if you're on your local network with your NAS.

--

Edit: see aborsy's response to me below. Looks like I'm a version behind. Maybe on-platform photo sharing is better now, I'll update the software and check it out

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#93
post #80

One of the biggest reasons why I like Google Photos is all the processing that it does on photos, especially some of the features that you have mentioned (object and face detection, location clustering, image filters, ...). Now to process these photos, you would need to read them and since you are end-to-end encrypted it's up to the clients to do this processing. Would some of these features even run on mobile device…

You're right, we don't think that the accuracy of the indexes generated on the client will match the ones generated by Google's servers. There is a trade off here between user experience and privacy, and we are hopeful that the outcome with ente will hit a spot that will make it a viable alternative for a certain set of users.

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#94
post #92
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Synology, actually. Is Synology Photos trustable?

The software with these features is called Synology Moments. I use it and I mostly love it, at the very least as a backup for my Google Photos. My experience is that it works great, provided that you're on your local network. When away from home or traveling, less so. Maybe I could configure things better to alleviate that, I don't know, but I haven't managed to yet. Sharing is less convenient. Trying to share a phot…

In DSM 7, it’s called Synology Photos!

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#95
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we have both a 100GB and a 1000GB plans, you can check them on https://ente.io/#pricing

Pricing is expensive comparing it to mega ( https://mega.io/pro ). Mega is end to end encrypted as well (Mega is 2tb for $118. Source code is also available https://mega.io/sourcecode ). Why would someone pick your service?

ente is focused towards solving the sole problem of photo storage and organization while Mega serves as a general purpose drive. The product is in it's infancy right now. Once we have search and indexing, the difference will hopefully be clearer.

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#96
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they would be able to do anything about it, since (from what I could infer from reading) it is zero-knowledge, so no one from the company can access the pictures. I might be wrong, though

Well, depending on legislation, they could be ordered to change the code to send the user password to them on next login for that account and then decrypt everything…

The architecture of Ente (https://ente.io/architecture) prevents your unencrypted master key from being exposed to the server. The password authentication appears to be client-side, which means that the data could not be compromised solely by a malicious server-side change.

Now, Ente could still change its web application to somehow leak the master key and not disclose the changes in the source repo. One solution for this vulnerability is to package the entire web client as a browser extension, which is what Mega is doing:

https://github.com/meganz/web-extension

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#97
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't store your password's hash. Since we use authenticated encryption, clients can identify when the decryption of your masterKey fails because you used a key generated from a wrong password.

Ok, that‘s cool! But the client get‘s to download the encrypted master key without authentication, right? Doesn’t that enable easy offline attacks or is the decryption too time-consuming?

No, the client has to first verify their email address and 2FA (if configured) to receive the encrypted keys. In addition to this the decryption is time-consuming.

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#98
post #94
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The software with these features is called Synology Moments. I use it and I mostly love it, at the very least as a backup for my Google Photos. My experience is that it works great, provided that you're on your local network. When away from home or traveling, less so. Maybe I could configure things better to alleviate that, I don't know, but I haven't managed to yet. Sharing is less convenient. Trying to share a phot…

In DSM 7, it’s called Synology Photos!

Thanks for the heads up! Looks like I have an update to install :)

Re: Show HN: We built an end-to-end encrypted alternative to Google Photos

#100

Your homepage says "protect your photos/faces etc. from algorithms" The algorithms are what makes Google Photos; Google Photos. If I wanted to just store my photos I'd throw them in a S3 bucket or Dropbox or something. Google Photos lets me automatically categorise my photos by person, lets me search my library using text search for anything (e.g. I can search 'museum' and see pictures I've taken in museums). That is…

> So you're going to implement algorithms then? Yes, we will implement the algorithms, purely on the client side, such that we don't hold indexes to your personal data. But I understand how that piece of text could have thrown you off, I'll think of ways to rephrase it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Actually I'm really curious how you do this. If the photos aren't stored client side, then how do you search? Do you have a thumbnail of every photo client side? Is that enough? I mean ImageNet scores are still pretty low for small/fast neural nets. And ImageNet isn't even representative of real world photos. So obviously to be successful you're going to have to continue training. So how do you do this in a privacy preserving way? Even federated learning can have some issues because images can be reconstructed from gradients.
Post reply on HN