The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks • Hacker News Board

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#121

Post by FranksTV » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

jsiepkes wrote: post #106

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy, I’m confused why you would interpolate the two. It is just more fuel for the argument that America has always been so uncomfortable and Puritan with sex and way too comfortable with violence.

> A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy That comparison doesn't work because calling to storm the Whitehouse is calling on people to perform an illegal act which is illegal by itself. I think everyone is in agreement that platforms should remove content that is illegal.

I mean it does work, because that's exactly the difference they were pointing out.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#122

Post by Noos » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #89

anon19876 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, the “Christian Taliban” that is beheading those that disagree with it in broad daylight and broadcasting those beheadings to the rest of the world. Here’s a tip: if you want to be persuasive, try using a little less hyperbole. There may be a point to be made here about the influence of organized religion on U.S. laws, but you’re alienating even those who would be willing to listen to your point by drawing su…

https://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9827886/abortion-clinic-attack... "Since 1977 there have been eight murders, 17 attempted murders, 42 bombings, and 186 arsons targeted at abortion clinics and providers across the United States." It's not on the same scale, but the faction clearly exists that would do it if they could get away with it.

...in 40 years. This is indistinguishable from random people being nutcases imo; you use the numbers to try and make them scarier than they are.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#123

Post by giancarlostoro » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #98

bufferoverflow wrote: post #81

It's interesting to see the comments from people who supported Youtube/Twitter/FB/Patreon/Visa political censorship, but are suddenly against the porn censorship by the payment same systems. "Rules for thee, but not for me."

A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy, I’m confused why you would interpolate the two. It is just more fuel for the argument that America has always been so uncomfortable and Puritan with sex and way too comfortable with violence.

I dont think they were talking about January 6 posts. I have seen all manner of Facebook friends censored for speaking their thoughts on varying subject matters that have been politicized over time. Also seen friends banned off Twitter for literal shitposting. I miss the internet when it was mostly full of nerds. After smartphones it all went downhill.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#124

Post by the-dude » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

Guillaume86 wrote: post #105

the-dude wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does that matter?

Why did you remove it if it doesn't matter?

I didn't remove anything. What I wrote is just my attempt at translation, while I am not fixated at orgs like you seem to be.

Why don't you answer the question instead of insinuating I have ulterior motives?

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#125

Post by HKH2 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #48

ryeguy_24 wrote: post #13

I was thinking of this just the other day. Just the past few weeks, Apple with CSAM, OnlyFans getting between people and their fans/clients. All of these big corporate moves are making me think more and more of decentralization of platforms. Is that coming?

> Is that coming? the fact that it's decentralized means you will not be told - and it's on yourself to buy in and be part of.

The revolution will not be televised?

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#126

Post by PeterisP » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #57

Sebb767 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people, especially in porn, live by impulsive spending (buying the subscription, sending tips). The high delay and extremely large sign-up burden [0], combined with the fees, would probably ruin a lot of their income. Remember, they compete with a free offering. [0] Most people don't own crypto yet, so they'd need to learn about it, create an exchange account, verify it, fill it up and then they can pay. Compar…

CC also went through a similar transformation that crypto would have to. The problem is that noone wants to take the risk to transform crypto into as convenient a service as credit cards, when credit cards have such a first-mover advantage.

A key reason for the cost of the CC payment infrastructure is that these costs were instrumental in solving the chicken/egg problem of adoption by ensuring that there's enough money/kickback/etc for all the infrastructure partners to market cards and offer various benefits to get both the cards in the consumers pockets and also terminals rolled out at merchants. Noone wants to take the risk to transform crypto into as convenient a service as credit cards because crypto is decentralized enough so that no organization can feel sure that they (as opposed to everyone else) will see enough payout (e.g. lucrative lock-in, skimming part of every transaction) to justify the quite immense and risky long-term investment required to push consumer adoption.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#127

Post by jonathanstrange » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

sarabad2021 wrote: post #82

recursivedoubts wrote: post #59

The Guardian has no problem with the unaccountable power of platforms and banks. The Guardian merely has a problem with this particular application of it.

Absolutely true. Whoever is downvoting leave a comment to explain. Are we okay with banks discriminating against free speech but not against porn?

What's your point? That someone at the Guardian does not share your personal opinion?

As for me, I'm not okay with either banks discriminating against free speech and banks discriminating against porn. For example, I was vigorously against banks blocking Wikileaks payments. Therefore, I'm fine with the Guardian article.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#128

Post by sandworm101 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

This issue happens evey decade or so. Last time it was wikileaks and VPNs being delisted by american credit card companies. That popularized cryptocurency and saw bitcoin rise as a censorship-beating payment system. And last week i signed up for a VPNs using my visa without issue. After that they went after filesharing platforms like rapidshare. Now "file lockers" are called "cloud storage" and are a normal online service. This time they are going after porn, an old favorite for US companies to hate. It will again come to nothing.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#129

Post by vidarh » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #81

It's interesting to see the comments from people who supported Youtube/Twitter/FB/Patreon/Visa political censorship, but are suddenly against the porn censorship by the payment same systems. "Rules for thee, but not for me."

There is a difference between a platform that can be easily replaced choosing not to serve certain content, and infrastructure providers choosing to deny service.

I'm all for Twitter choosing what they will allow - if anything the more aggressive they are, the more space it creates for competition.

I'm on the other hand not for payment providers even being allowed to choose, because their position then makes them effective arbiter of what kinds of businesses are allowed to exist without democratic oversight.

For all the power the social networks have, it's nothing like that.

Maybe crypto will change that, but today threatening to withdraw payment processing is an existential threat for a lot of online businesses which gives payment networks undue power.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#130

Post by FranksTV » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #51

pessimizer wrote: post #25

The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government, or simply the loudest, richest mouth, in order to keep the profit flowing. If you want to fix it, you put in legal protections for people to do business, rather th…

The issue is that the banks all move in lock step, undermining the basic principle of the free market. If one bank decides it doesn’t want to deal with porn, fine. But when all the banks decide that, that’s very very bad. The cumulative effect is a chilling of protected speech in a way that congress could never legally get away with.

I mean, if it's really a great market that's underserved, then you should launch a payment processor that serves the market.

People think this is about morality, but it's a lot more about the cost of operating in that market. I bet that there are way more claims of fraud, money laundering investigations, subpoenas and other overhead that the banks don't want to deal with.

Like teenagers stealing credit cards to pay camgirls is probably pretty common. And there are likely a lot of prostitution investigations.

The real problem is that sex work isn't treated like normal work, which just creates freedom for criminals to take advantage of vulnerable people.

If it was licensed and regulated, then it would be easier to tell the crooks, and victims of human trafficking from the people who are legitimate, voluntary workers.

Then the economics might make sense for banks to keep serving these customers.