The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks • Hacker News Board

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#91

Post by ajross » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #62

ajross wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't. Crypto solves anonymity, making it possible for operations to take payments in ways that can't be regulated based on content. It doesn't solve trust. In fact existing solutions fall way, way, short of what consumers already have. A provider that accepts crypto is 100% unaccountable. You can't do a chargeback on Bitcoin. You get what you get once you make that payment. Now, it's true that there is a…

What does this have to do with trust? Clearly the current users trust OnlyFans, and I doubt very many people are worried they’re going to disappear in the middle of the night and turn off the porn. “Yeah I’ll throw $50 into this OnlyFans subscription, but only if I can get a chargeback if I’m not happy with the performer” said nobody ever.

It's a stack, though. Sure, no sex work consumer ever said that[1], but their bank sure as hell did. Which is why they had a handy credit card in their pocket with which they were able to easily pay OnlyFans, who were able to easily receive the transaction. It's about TRUST. Banks and consumers and providers work together to come up with a framework where fraud is so difficult as to be largely a vanishing concern for routine transactions.

And that's what you need in the crypto world. It's not enough to have anonymity. It's just not. And that's why this hasn't been solved yet. Keep at it.

[1] Actually some did, who was the starlet that produced a giant chargeback flood a while back by promising nudity she didn't deliver? I'm not the expert but I remember the story.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#92

Post by pjc50 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

travoc wrote: post #80

pjc50 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The external pressure in the US is coming mostly from evangelical Christians, who literally worship the divine Father figure.

Does that also explain why banks are increasingly resistant to doing business with gun manufacturers and conservative activist groups?

They're capable of caving to pressure from different groups at the same time?

The nature of culture war is appeasing the squeakiest wheel, rather than finely balanced ethical calculus.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#93

Post by JadeNB » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #51

pessimizer wrote: post #25

The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government, or simply the loudest, richest mouth, in order to keep the profit flowing. If you want to fix it, you put in legal protections for people to do business, rather th…

The issue is that the banks all move in lock step, undermining the basic principle of the free market. If one bank decides it doesn’t want to deal with porn, fine. But when all the banks decide that, that’s very very bad. The cumulative effect is a chilling of protected speech in a way that congress could never legally get away with.

> If one bank decides it doesn’t want to deal with porn, fine. But when all the banks decide that, that’s very very bad.

I think that's not quite what happened here. It's not that, literally, all the banks decided this; it's that the banks are so huge that, when one or a few of the mega-banks make the decision, it's effectively the same as if they all did. Ultra-consolidation is the real problem.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#94

Post by caseysoftware » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

theelous3 wrote: post #60

As far as I was aware, the main reason banks don't want to deal with porn is the huge rate of chargebacks that occur. Post nut clarity is apparently a financial problem.

I suspect post wife-noticed-the-charge clarity is a bigger issue.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#95

Post by rvz » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

perryizgr8 wrote: post #31

Meh. Everybody was like "private companies can do whatever they like" when parler was censored off the internet. Now why is it a big deal when the same happens to a porn site? Only fans can create their own Visa and Mastercard if they want.

Exactly. There you go and that's the idea. This can happen to anyone.

I don't understand why they cheer on with the same "X is a private company and can ban, censor or remove whatever they like" argument when it happens to someone they don't like with but only care when it happens to them or to someone they agree with.

Just look at how Google Play removed other apps on the Play Store after Parler was banned [0]. This can happen to anyone.

These companies that hold this power are not anyone's friends and once again are on the side of profit. When will supporters of such acts learn that it can soon happen to them and realise that these large companies are the problem?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28173060

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#96

Post by JadeNB » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

kingkawn wrote: post #44

pessimizer wrote: post #25

The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government, or simply the loudest, richest mouth, in order to keep the profit flowing. If you want to fix it, you put in legal protections for people to do business, rather th…

If that were true they wouldnt be investing in Facebook.

> If that were true they wouldnt be investing in Facebook.

It's easier to stir up outrage against porn—sexual prudishness has a long history—than against Facebook—the ability so globally to overshare, and the (inevitably delayed) realization of its consequences, is only in the very beginning of forming.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#97

Post by ajross » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

rvz wrote: post #78

ajross wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't. Crypto solves anonymity, making it possible for operations to take payments in ways that can't be regulated based on content. It doesn't solve trust. In fact existing solutions fall way, way, short of what consumers already have. A provider that accepts crypto is 100% unaccountable. You can't do a chargeback on Bitcoin. You get what you get once you make that payment. Now, it's true that there is a…

> It really doesn't. Crypto solves anonymity. Depends on the cryptocurrency. If you're talking about Monero then yes. As for the others, they are far less private than you think and the majority of cryptocurrencies out there can still be traced.

Heh, and intra-crypto wars like this are one of the reasons the Trust Problem hasn't been cracked yet. People are too busy trying to fix the part that's already solved!

I mean, look. Yes, there are ways to trace bitcoin et. al. given some level of sophistication. But the threat model isn't an intelligence agency trying to unmask a single porn consumer or cam worker. These technologies are "anonymous enough" so that an outfit like OnlyFans can reliably take payment from arbitrary consumers without fear of regulatory interference. This part really is solved. It's just not enough.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#98

Post by JohnJamesRambo » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #81

It's interesting to see the comments from people who supported Youtube/Twitter/FB/Patreon/Visa political censorship, but are suddenly against the porn censorship by the payment same systems. "Rules for thee, but not for me."

A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy, I’m confused why you would interpolate the two. It is just more fuel for the argument that America has always been so uncomfortable and Puritan with sex and way too comfortable with violence.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#99

Post by ByteWelder » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

jbverschoor wrote: post #79

pessimizer wrote: post #25

The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government, or simply the loudest, richest mouth, in order to keep the profit flowing. If you want to fix it, you put in legal protections for people to do business, rather th…

Exactly. Banks have no morals, as long as the price is right

You're describing the average business. Businesses are primarily there to make money.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#100

Post by caseysoftware » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

beebeepka wrote: post #85

What a thread. Right now literally half the posts are greyed out for saying things I don't understand in the slightest. Feels like some kind of cultural war is spilling into the site but due to nature of HN, no one is really sharing their actual thoughts on the matter so there's a lot of voting based on subtleties.

That's because what you type can and will be used against you in the court of public opinion.