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Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

economist.com

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Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#371

Post by ianhawes »

colinmhayes wrote: post #219
thatguy0900 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of a bubble do you have to be in to think someone peeing on cars is a non issue

I don't think arresting people solves problems. Just makes them shittier people when they get out a week later.

I'm fairly certain it is permitted in California, but police offers do have the power to write a citation that acts as a summons for the suspect to appear in court.

No arrest, likely no jail time, just ~$20 in court costs plus whatever fine the judge imposes.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#372

Post by dcolkitt »

ecf wrote: post #96
LordDragonfang wrote: post #54

>One City Hall insider suggests that San Francisco overreacts to issues that are in the national news, and designs solutions to the country’s problems rather than its own. For example, when Mr Boudin ran on his platform of less punitive justice, San Francisco already had one of the lowest incarceration rates in the country. In 2019, 106 adults were in prison for every 100,000 people, one-fifth the rate in California…

Are incarceration rates low because people behave or are they low because SF police don’t bother to arrest people?

SF has very high property crime, but fairly low violent crime. Most of the America’s incarceration rate is driven by a small number of prisoners serving long sentences. Usually for violent crime or drug trafficking.

An amazing statistics is that if the the US released every prisoner except the murderors and rapsists, we’d still have a higher incarceration rate than the EU.

A city full of bike thieves, shoplifters, and public defecators isn’t going to have a high incarceration. Even if the police are vigorous about arrests, those people just don’t spend very long in jail.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#373

Post by ghomrassen »

chrisseaton wrote: post #369
ghomrassen wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your logic can be extended indefinitely. Are we torturing pedophiles by forcing them not to abuse children? What about murderers? Society coalesced for a reason.

You’re comparing homeless people to pedophiles and murderers.

Well, I didn't, but can you tell me your why your way of thinking doesn't apply across the board?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#374

Post by dcolkitt »

chrisseaton wrote: post #206
muh_gradle wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that are mentally ill, and especially if they are violent, you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need. It's an unpopular opinion. But frankly it's long overdue. For those that have the option to go to shelters, receive plenty of benefits (which SF most definitely provides) but prefer to be homeless, they need to be separated from major city areas where tourists, business people, and every day…

> you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need The problem is that there’s a long history of people labelling all sorts of things they don’t like as being a mental illness and using that as an excuse to use treatment as violence against them. We called homosexuality a mental illness until very recently and forced people to have violent treatment for it, for example.

As an addendum, I’ll also add that the psychiatric system was the main Avenue for suppressing dissidents in the post-Brezhnev USSR.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#375

Post by chrisseaton »

ghomrassen wrote: post #373
chrisseaton wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re comparing homeless people to pedophiles and murderers.

Well, I didn't, but can you tell me your why your way of thinking doesn't apply across the board?

If someone’s harming someone else, stop them. If they aren’t, offer help but if they tell you they don’t want your help leave them be.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#376

Post by ghomrassen »

chrisseaton wrote: post #360
ghomrassen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So righteousness falls upon the vulnerable? I guess I'll tell my drug addicted cousin he's all good because he's vulnerable. You can be moral by being against the will of someone who's lost their way.

> You can be moral by being against the will of someone who's lost their way. Who are you to decide what their ‘way’ is supposed to be to know they’re off it? Some parents think their gay children have lost their way and force them into ‘treatment’. I guess you think they’re wrong and shouldn’t be allowed to do that but you’re right and should be able to do what you want? I don’t think there’s much different between…

That's the crux of the issue isn't it. Society has to set some ground rules, no?

I'm all for live and let be, but letting vagrancy fester and destroy cities where other people want to live is where I draw the line.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#377

Post by s17n »

This isn't an investigation or analysis of what is wrong with SF government, or even a substantive argument that anything is wrong. Instead it's just a very familiar list of complaints. The fact that it quotes someone who moved to Puerto Rico (a place whose government makes SF look like Switzerland), presumably for tax reasons, says everything you need to know.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#378

Post by fallingknife »

France_is_bacon wrote: post #300
nradov wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much? What possible benefit could they derive from homelessness, dirty streets, rampant property crime, and a dysfunctional government? The wealthy people who control NYC politics seem less tolerant of such issues.

As far as I'm concerned, the super wealthy do everything in their power to pit different factions against each other. Feminists against manosphere, Dems vs Republicans, anti-war against pro-war, rural against urban. I bet the weathly, with billions at their disposal, are masters at astroturfing. This means that they create public interest groups to push an agenda, but they keep their own participation hidden. This wa…

This is unfalsifiable, conspiratorial BS. It just allows you to write off any group with an opinion you disagree with as billionaires "astroturfing." It conveniently allows you to always think you should get your way, while at the same time believing in Democracy.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#379

Post by dralley »

ViViDboarder wrote: post #355
dralley wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they would feel that sticking their neck out like that would put themselves at personal risk, either literally or figuratively.

In what way would doing there job put them at risk that they didn’t sign up for with the job itself? You’re not going to convince me to pay you more if you do a shit job. Same issue as with the SF school district.

You're asking them to publicly humiliate an office that is politically incentivized (in SF) to throw them under the bus if they see the opportunity to do so, opportunities which might come along more frequently the more they actually arrest people.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#380

Post by fallingknife »

undergrowth54 wrote: post #365
France_is_bacon wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm concerned, the super wealthy do everything in their power to pit different factions against each other. Feminists against manosphere, Dems vs Republicans, anti-war against pro-war, rural against urban. I bet the weathly, with billions at their disposal, are masters at astroturfing. This means that they create public interest groups to push an agenda, but they keep their own participation hidden. This wa…

It is rather uncommon to believe that people in a society where everyone can publish their opinions must be artificially manipulated into conflict and dissent. I’d think that harmony and consent must instead be artificially manufactured. I’m curious about your life experience here. > that everyone forgets about the most significant problem in the USA - the top 5% of the country own over 80% of the wealth I’ve heard t…

That belief is actually really common in the US. Particularly among the upper middle class (the top 10%, and 90% of HN readers) to convince themselves that when they disagree with people in the working class, who outnumber them by far, that it's really not them vs the majority, but rather them vs a few evil billionaire puppet masters. And of course the only way to fight these evil billionaires (on behalf of the poor, of course. lol!) and their prole slave army is through censorship (censorship by companies controlled by, uh, the evil billionaires of course!). It's the mental gymnastics that allow you to be an authoritarian but still nominally believe in "democracy."
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