Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional • Hacker News Board

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#331

Post by kortilla » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 7:56 AM UTC

pvarangot wrote: post #132

muh_gradle wrote: post #22

I was thinking of making the move to SF for the higher income. Seeing the past few years of the city have completely changed my mind though. Chesa Boudin physically makes my head hurt so much.

I wouldn't give up the higher income because you don't like the DA. If you don't read the news or hang out with people that are addicted to the news like /r/sanfrancisco you won't even notice. My way to deal with car crime is not owning a car, with the extra income I can afford to mostly use ridesharing for most of my needs and rent a car for the rest of them. Other than car crime, other forms of violent crime in SF…

> My way to deal with car crime is not owning a car, with the extra income I can afford to mostly use ridesharing for most of my needs and rent a car for the rest of them.

That is mind boggling to Americans outside of SF though. That’s the equivalent of telling people not to “dress slutty” if they don’t want to be raped.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#332

Post by fnmk » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:03 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #303

Hermitian909 wrote: post #207

As someone who's family has been in the bay area for over a century I was disappointed the article didn't mention any of the old money families who've controlled SF politics for decades. This article[0] mentions some, though not all of the families (The Aliotos aren't mentioned here for example). While I haven't fully kept up, I know in the 90s at least a quarter of the financial district was held by two families. Th…

There you have it. Why is San Francisco’s city government so dysfunctional? Because no matter how bad it gets and how much liberal policies fail, voters can convince themselves that the problem is “moneyed elites” and “ not enough liberalism.” Just amazing.

It is kind of ironic, isn't it? These days Tucker Carlson talks about pardoning Assange, the deep state and that house prices in SF are too high for the middle class. Literally Noam Chomsky could be saying the same things.

But people still believe that Republicans will take away your freedoms and Democrats will solve everything (I don't believe either will solve much).

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#333

Post by chema » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:09 AM UTC

I have lived in SF for 11 years. I have worked for nonprofits and ran small businesses, on top of being a renter, so I'm not raking in the big bucks. Before moving here, I lived in Switzerland, Mexico, Canada and the South. I have had less "quality of life" issues here than elsewhere. Sure, some neighborhoods are plagued by homelessness and drug users, but honestly so are some places in Switzerland. Transit is great (could be better), education is too and there's a great sense of community pretty much anywhere. I really don't understand why folks are so upset.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#334

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:12 AM UTC

France_is_bacon wrote: post #300

nradov wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much? What possible benefit could they derive from homelessness, dirty streets, rampant property crime, and a dysfunctional government? The wealthy people who control NYC politics seem less tolerant of such issues.

As far as I'm concerned, the super wealthy do everything in their power to pit different factions against each other. Feminists against manosphere, Dems vs Republicans, anti-war against pro-war, rural against urban. I bet the weathly, with billions at their disposal, are masters at astroturfing. This means that they create public interest groups to push an agenda, but they keep their own participation hidden. This wa…

[deleted]

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#335

Post by ulfw » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:13 AM UTC

ecf wrote: post #96

LordDragonfang wrote: post #54

>One City Hall insider suggests that San Francisco overreacts to issues that are in the national news, and designs solutions to the country’s problems rather than its own. For example, when Mr Boudin ran on his platform of less punitive justice, San Francisco already had one of the lowest incarceration rates in the country. In 2019, 106 adults were in prison for every 100,000 people, one-fifth the rate in California…

Are incarceration rates low because people behave or are they low because SF police don’t bother to arrest people?

Obviously the latter. Have you read the rest of the article?

"Before covid-19 San Francisco was the car-break-in capital of America; but with fewer tourists, criminals have shifted their attention. Home burglaries are up. Shootings have more than doubled in the past year. Viral videos show daytime heists, with perpetrators sauntering out of stores without consequence. Lax enforcement of drug laws can become fatal when even small amounts can kill."

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#336

Post by seehafer » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:13 AM UTC

teebs wrote: post #98

I don't think this article successfully describes "why" SF is dysfunctional. I agree that the government is bureaucratic and slow, and the school system is terrible, and our government is corrupt. That's the "what." I think some of the "why"s mentioned in the article are accurate. It's true that SF residents tend to be transient and only homeowners vote in large numbers. And SF political actors see themselves through…

> There is plenty of political competition in SF - which brings me to my next point.

I beg to differ: the political Overton window in SF is almost comically small. A Bloomberg-type figure is impossible because no big businessman could get elected dogcatcher in SF. And a Giuliani-type figure is even more out of the question. “Republican” is only a slightly more acceptable epithet than “pedophile” in SF, and in some quarters, the latter is probably viewed with less suspicion.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#337

Post by hellbannedguy » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:18 AM UTC

victoro wrote: post #282

xenadu02 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police inaction is a long-standing problem that pre-dates the current DA by quite some time. SF police have not responded to garage break-ins or car break-ins for some time. They might show up 5 hours later, very annoyed, and take a report. Even if you have good quality HD video evidence. Even if you have a tracking device on the stolen property proving where it is. They will not gather evidence, collect fingerprints…

This response strikes at the heart of the issue. Until the wild distortions in the property market are fixed (imo, specifically until Prop 13 gets repealed or significantly amended) big, expensive cities in California will continue have increasing crime problems. As you can probably imagine, community policing is difficult if you're not a member of the community. And as the cost of living goes up while property taxes…

So take away prop 13, and crime will disappear?

San Francisco has plenty of cops. They like to write tickets, do crossword puzzles, and play chess. (Go to the basement of any precinct.). Let's not forget drinking too much, and lucky if they finished a community college. I imagine those last few sentences are common observations at most Police Squads across America.

It's not prop 13.

As to homelessness---it's bad all over the west coast for obvious reasons. And no it's not because the widow whom rents out a room to a scary stranger so she can stay in the home she raised her kids in. I guess prop 13 is an easy target? There's a part of me that would like you Know it All's whom didn't live through opening a ever increasing property tax bill your wish of repeal.

Let's be real. Tech hate all unions. Many of you guys will be politely shown the door at 50. If you save a bit, and happened to score a home when younger; when you are puttering around the garage ruining the iPad with tools brought from Amazon, while wearing a fishing vest, calling your wife mom; you will cherish prop 13.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#338

Post by kongin » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:20 AM UTC

m-ee wrote: post #257

nradov wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much? What possible benefit could they derive from homelessness, dirty streets, rampant property crime, and a dysfunctional government? The wealthy people who control NYC politics seem less tolerant of such issues.

There’s more than one wealthy cabal. There’s the ultra rich power brokers like the Aliotos, Getty’s and then there’s the moderately wealthy people at the top of the government itself. Especially anyone associated with Willie Brown. Government jobs are extremely lucrative, many pay six figures and opportunities to supplement with graft are plentiful. It’s a powerful club to be in and you’re potentially set for life. M…

>Government jobs are extremely lucrative, many pay six figures and opportunities to supplement with graft are plentiful. It’s a powerful club to be in and you’re potentially set for life. My spouse is a lifelong resident and remembers rushing to city hall with other hopefuls every time the city opened up applications.

Six figures in SF is literally nothing: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44725026

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#339

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:41 AM UTC

twh270 wrote: post #226

WalterBright wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s played on my mind many times over the years, how do you help someone in that scenario? Offer them help. If they refuse, respect their rights, and move on.

I'm mostly in agreement with that, as I follow a "live and let live" philosophy. Where I part ways with that binary choice is when the person is actively a menace to themselves or others; their behavior has a 'high' cost to society. I can't get on board with respecting someone's right to self-determination when they repeatedly and regularly damage property, attack people, or are otherwise damaging to the fabric of so…

Nobody has a right to commit crimes. If they do, the police should deal with it.

What I was referring to about rights is people have a right to do as they please as long as they are not infringing on other peoples' rights.

Rights also apply to legally competent adults. For people who are not legally competent, the state is empowered to make decisions and force it on them, though of course this is a dangerous tool.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#340

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #285

WalterBright wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s played on my mind many times over the years, how do you help someone in that scenario? Offer them help. If they refuse, respect their rights, and move on.

And then when they defecate on your doorstep and urinate on your porch, what do you do? Offer them treatment, they refuse, so you "respect their rights" and move on? Wash, rinse, repeat? It is strange that people have absolutely no problem banning camping in national parks but think it is a human right to do it in urban areas. Cities, in order to survive, need to enforce standards of behavior, and those who flaunt th…

> And then when they defecate on your doorstep and urinate on your porch, what do you do?

Those are crimes. Nobody has the right to commit crimes.