Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional • Hacker News Board

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#171

Post by genocidicbunny » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

CraigJPerry wrote: post #137

I sat and chatted to a homeless fella hanging out at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF for a while. He wasn’t from CA, from Missouri IIRC. He was gay, his family disowned him, he got into drugs. He got bitter, did some nasty stuff to people he hated, did some other misguided things and basically had hit rock bottom. I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He sai…

> I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He said he didn’t want that, he said he enjoyed being homeless. He was sleeping in a squat house, he was able to score enough cash from tourists to support his drugs habit, the police left him alone because he didn’t look out of place, he was clean, groomed etc.

> How does society help someone with that view?

To play devil's advocate -- does society need to help someone like that right away? It sounds like this man isn't in a great place, but content with what he has. Not so sound callous, but there's likely a deeper rock bottom he can hit -- if he ever gets injured or sick for example. Once that happens he may change his mind, but until then there's likely very little to nothing you can do.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#172

Post by lubujackson » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

ecf wrote: post #96

LordDragonfang wrote: post #54

>One City Hall insider suggests that San Francisco overreacts to issues that are in the national news, and designs solutions to the country’s problems rather than its own. For example, when Mr Boudin ran on his platform of less punitive justice, San Francisco already had one of the lowest incarceration rates in the country. In 2019, 106 adults were in prison for every 100,000 people, one-fifth the rate in California…

Are incarceration rates low because people behave or are they low because SF police don’t bother to arrest people?

Low because they don't arrest anyone. But that isn't on the police - they don't arrest anyone because the DA doesn't prosecute anyone.

Property crime is sky high... if you happen to get caught breaking into a car the penalty is a warning. That is the policy. You have to break into many cars and be caught (which is hard to do) many times for any action.

Boudin has indefensibly ignored violent criminals, too. Like a woman being assaulted while trying to open the door to here condo, fully on video and there was no prosecution. Even a few cases of murder from repeat offenders who were let go repeatedly after violent assault.

If you live in SF, try the Citizen phone app for alerts near you. There is some crazy stuff happening all around the city. Lately, cars keep inexplicably flipping over on city streets.

The craziest update I've seen was an alert about man dressed like a clown wielding a sword-cane.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#173

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

CraigJPerry wrote: post #137

I sat and chatted to a homeless fella hanging out at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF for a while. He wasn’t from CA, from Missouri IIRC. He was gay, his family disowned him, he got into drugs. He got bitter, did some nasty stuff to people he hated, did some other misguided things and basically had hit rock bottom. I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He sai…

> It’s played on my mind many times over the years, how do you help someone in that scenario?

Offer them help. If they refuse, respect their rights, and move on.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#174

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

ahmadss wrote: post #12

hamburgerwah wrote: post #11

A lot of my family has lived in SF for decades, all of them have moved out in the past 4 years. It's a monstrous dystopia now. The ultra rich completely insulated from the human misery sprawled out in every direction around them while their peasants toil away as tiny ants looked down upon with pity from their gleaming towers.

sounds like Mumbai or Karachi or any other large city in a developing nation. sheesh.

Or any other place with an extreme wealth gradient.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#175

Post by dillondoyle » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:15 AM UTC

CraigJPerry wrote: post #137

I sat and chatted to a homeless fella hanging out at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF for a while. He wasn’t from CA, from Missouri IIRC. He was gay, his family disowned him, he got into drugs. He got bitter, did some nasty stuff to people he hated, did some other misguided things and basically had hit rock bottom. I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He sai…

Glasgow sounds like they are doing great by those numbers compared to at least my city.

In my city subReddit I advocated for something that sounds similar; yes housing even for addicts who will shoot up in their new place. Got downvoted. Also people bitter that rent is unaffordable for them too and said no one is entitled to free or reduced rent, since they don't get that themselves. though kind of my point housing should be a human right produced by society to everyone without judgement.

I think there is a misguided paternalistic moral-crusading factor in the states that holds back things like housing first, harm reduction strategies & treatment.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#176

Post by gjs278 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:16 AM UTC

Jackpillar wrote: post #79

hn8788 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was watching a twitch streamer who lives in SF, and he told a story about a time he was walking down the sidewalk at night and saw a homeless person peeing on someone's car. He said there was a cop nearby that saw him doing it, but he told the streamer that the homeless guy looked gross and he didn't feel like dealing with him, so the homeless guy just walked away when he was finished.

You want a cop to physically detain a homeless person which will just result in sending him through a pointlessly cruel and expensive criminal justice system where he'll pop-out the other side with nothing but unpayable debts that'll drive him through the same cycle again - all because he urinated on a car of someone who won't even realize it happened?

yes

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#177

Post by mc32 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

Manuel_D wrote: post #112

reilly3000 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco was brilliant before tech, and will be shining in the next boom. Some things are bigger than now, and maybe bigger than we can fully understand. Here’s some enjoyable reading for those with a few minutes to spare: http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist1/early.html To me the confluence of cultures, like the brackish waters of the bay, are it’s hallmark. The issues around sudden wealth, excess, limited housing, and…

San Francisco had a declining population from 1960 until 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_San_Francisco So according to people voting with their feet: no, San Francisco was not a brilliant place before tech. Or at least it wasn't brilliant enough to attract a net increase in population.

Believe it or not, I met a RE agent who told me back in the early 90s RE agents were leaving SF because business was so bad. It's hard to imagine, but at least an anecdote.

But so was San Jose. Apparently the "downtown" was boarded up in many places till the late 90s when it began emerging from a mini-Detroit like state. MacEnary was feverishly trying to resuscitate it, I don't think it was his effort so much as it was tech to the rescue, else it would have been an Albukerke.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#178

Post by atdrummond » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:19 AM UTC

tdeck wrote: post #159

junon wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sunset, Parkside, and Marina are all wealthy areas in the north/west of the city. Richmond is not in SF city. Presidio is right next to the pier and thus I would consider it a "touristy area". You're living under a (perhaps bejeweled) rock if you've lived in SF and never seen human shit, someone peeing between some cars, dead animals, homeless literally everywhere, disheveled buildings, trash piles lining the gutters…

Someone who doesn't know that the Richmond is a district of San Francisco doesn't get to pompously lecture me on not knowing about the city I lived in for seven years. Also, the Sunset is not a particularly wealthy district and it's not in the northwest. I never claimed that these problems don't exist, but the idea that they're part of life in every part of the city is simply false.

Richmond is also a city, hence why people usually say Richmond District if they want to explicitly refer to the NW District of SF when discussing the city and the surrounding area.

Poster you’re replying to isn’t wrong, just as you aren’t.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#179

Post by ericd » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

metalforever wrote: post #48

ithinkso wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are willing to put up with a lot if it means they don't give anything to someone that doesn't deserve it. 'I will walk through a pile of shit before my money is used for you to shit somewhere else you lazy fuck'

You don't actually live in SF or you would know that there's not actually literal piles of shit everywhere.

:-) I think you might not be watching your step carefully enough.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#180

Post by cam0 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC

tdeck wrote: post #134

junon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's human feces everywhere outside the tourist/financial districts, and the entirety of the inner city (Tenderloin) is disintegrated and full of poverty, homelessness and crime - and it's predominantly people of color who accumulate there. If that's "diverse" and "beautiful" then I'd hate to think what "monocultural" and "dull" looks like...

> There's human feces everywhere outside the tourist/financial districts, This is not accurate. The Sunset, Richmond, Parkside, Presidio, Marina, and many other parts of the city are very clean (or at least not notably dirty for a city). Perhaps the Marina/Presidio could be called tourist areas but the Sunset and Richmond certainly are not.

I've lived here for over 5 years and can absolutely confirm there are a few parts of the city that are dirty and have the feces/needles that people who honestly can't afford to live here love to talk about when they're denigrating the city. As you've noted, there are lots of neighborhoods, MOST of the city, that are very clean, safe, and obviously very desirable to live in.