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Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

economist.com

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Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#61

Post by nlh »

hamburgerwah wrote: post #11

A lot of my family has lived in SF for decades, all of them have moved out in the past 4 years. It's a monstrous dystopia now. The ultra rich completely insulated from the human misery sprawled out in every direction around them while their peasants toil away as tiny ants looked down upon with pity from their gleaming towers.

Sorry, that's just not true. Twitter loves perpetuating the story of what an insane dystopia SF is these days, but if you actually live here and actually spend time in the city instead of complaining about it, you'll see that is just insanely false.

It's got problems (rise in homelessness & property crimes and the Tenderloin is as bad as its ever been re: drugs), but the gap between "big city problems" and "monstrous dystopia" is about as wide as the bay itself.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#62

Post by space_fountain »

I think some of the responses here are too gloomy. Look things are bad but SF does have a lot going for it and it's a lot less bad than some people think, just don't live in SOMA or the tenderloin and you'll be a lot better off. SF has lots of wealth and resources just waiting to be tapped into, a climate that's likely to get nicer over the next several decades (maybe ignoring smoke), some of the highest densities both of people and of parks in the US. Yes there are problems deep in the politics of SF, but none of them are unfixable.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#63

Post by manderley »

systemvoltage wrote: post #47
DoreenMichele wrote: post #29

I will note that California seems to be America's dumping ground for the nation's homeless problem. There are also long-standing federal and state housing policies impacting San Francisco. I have no idea how dysfunctional the local city government is in this case, but there are things going on here beyond its control. It's not fair or reasonable to act like the condition the city is in is entirely due to local govern…

I keep hearing this. Do you have any citations for "America's dumping ground". How many homeless are migrating to California? > As the data shows us, most of the homeless people you pass on the streets every day are in fact Californians. > Less than a fifth (18 percent) said they had lived out of state before becoming homeless. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/us/homeless-population.ht... Everytime this argument ha…

You're linking an article lacking in data.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#64

Post by kmtrowbr »

LurkingPenguin wrote: post #7
fspacef wrote: post #3

Per my own experience SF is not a bad place to live. But the homelessness has gotten worse so I had to get out.

> Per my own experience SF is not a bad place to live. I have the opposite view. In SF, your risk of the following occurring is non-negligible and in some cases, shockingly quite likely: - Being mugged/robbed - Having your car broken into - Being harangued or even assaulted by someone who is mentally ill and/or under the influence - Witnessing public urination, defecation, drug use and grab and go retail theft - Step…

I've lived in San Francisco for 16 years. Yes, I have experienced the homeless problem. I had my car broken into once when I left my backpack inside. I have never been mugged or robbed or had any physical violence occur, or be threatened. We have many lovely friends who live here. San Francisco is under a lot of pressure: population, finance, environmental. It is not a dystopia. It is a community where people build their lives and deserves love and support. I have spent significant amounts of time in New York, Paris and other world cities. I do not find San Francisco to be all that different from New York or Paris.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#65

Post by [deleted] »

flyinglizard wrote: post #43
rpmcmurdo wrote: post #17

27 year San Francisco resident here. The government here is dysfunctional because that's what people voted for. The fact that people pay so much to live here says that people are willing to put up with a lot in exchange for living in a diverse and beautiful city.

Not sure I’d call a city which had one ruling party for forty years “diverse”.

[deleted]

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#66

Post by andbberger »

shuckles wrote: post #25
hamburgerwah wrote: post #11

A lot of my family has lived in SF for decades, all of them have moved out in the past 4 years. It's a monstrous dystopia now. The ultra rich completely insulated from the human misery sprawled out in every direction around them while their peasants toil away as tiny ants looked down upon with pity from their gleaming towers.

Huh? The primary issue with San Francisco is that you are in fact not insulated from human misery at all. If you want insulation, check out Atherton or Woodside 20 miles down south. In addition, the wealthy of San Francisco live in giant single family homes. It’s not a big skyscraper culture.

Yes yes, too many poor people. That's definitely the problem /s

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#67

Post by scottm01 »

diffset wrote: post #19
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Per my own experience SF is not a bad place to live. I have the opposite view. In SF, your risk of the following occurring is non-negligible and in some cases, shockingly quite likely: - Being mugged/robbed - Having your car broken into - Being harangued or even assaulted by someone who is mentally ill and/or under the influence - Witnessing public urination, defecation, drug use and grab and go retail theft - Step…

The homeless and those issues pretty much only exist in the tourist areas near downtown, the tenderloin, soma, etc. The tourists come and see all of that and get the idea SF is some horrible dystopia, but unless you live in those areas, it's not a problem. I lived in Noe Valley for 3 years and never ran into a single problem from your list. SF is so much more than downtown.

As long as we're giving personal anecdotes, I lived in the mission (the "good side" near dolores park) for 8 years and experienced most of that list. I was physically assaulted last fall while walking back from Noe Valley at 2pm in the afternoon. Nobody answered the police non emergency number while I followed the assailant (who threw a right hook that I only partially dodged as he walked past me on the street).

Sure, you get better at dodging feces and ignoring the drug use, littering, and theft, but let's not pretend it's confined to "downtown, the tenderloin, soma, etc".

I've lived and worked in Manhattan and DC, and spent time in many international cities. I've walked all over all of them, and never felt less safe than I regularly did walking to work in soma.

SF has a unique political situation, a climate that makes homelessness "bearable" and a huge number of absentee landlords (thanks, Prop 13).

We were sad to move out in January. SF is a gorgeous city filled with kind, interesting people. "Horrible dystopia" is certainly an exaggeration, but the situation is bad and has gotten much worse in the past few years.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#68

Post by ithinkso »

metalforever wrote: post #48
ithinkso wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are willing to put up with a lot if it means they don't give anything to someone that doesn't deserve it. 'I will walk through a pile of shit before my money is used for you to shit somewhere else you lazy fuck'

You don't actually live in SF or you would know that there's not actually literal piles of shit everywhere.

True, my comment was a bit loaded but 'shit' in my comment was not really mean excrements... I used it to mean 'problems' in a hard, loaded way like 'This is the shit I have to deal with' with some parallels to homelessness but if you read my comment again, it doesn't really say what you think it does

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#69

Post by reilly3000 »

fallingknife wrote: post #26
rpmcmurdo wrote: post #17

27 year San Francisco resident here. The government here is dysfunctional because that's what people voted for. The fact that people pay so much to live here says that people are willing to put up with a lot in exchange for living in a diverse and beautiful city.

> people are willing to put up with a lot in exchange for living in a diverse and beautiful city. You mean in exchange for living in a city with high paying tech jobs?

San Francisco was brilliant before tech, and will be shining in the next boom. Some things are bigger than now, and maybe bigger than we can fully understand.

Here’s some enjoyable reading for those with a few minutes to spare: http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist1/early.html

To me the confluence of cultures, like the brackish waters of the bay, are it’s hallmark. The issues around sudden wealth, excess, limited housing, and visionary governance seem to be more about the place than a particular moment.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#70

Post by omegaworks »

metalforever wrote: post #48
ithinkso wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are willing to put up with a lot if it means they don't give anything to someone that doesn't deserve it. 'I will walk through a pile of shit before my money is used for you to shit somewhere else you lazy fuck'

You don't actually live in SF or you would know that there's not actually literal piles of shit everywhere.

There is literal shit everywhere. A walk down any block needs one eye kept on where you step. If it's not human shit it's dog shit because pet owners can't seem to be bothered.

There are few and dwindling public bathrooms to the point where gig workers struggle to find facilities[1] while they're out there doing critical work. Rich NIMBYs believe that bathrooms (and not the sky-high rents they seek) encourage people to become homeless, so they've successfully shut down the emergency facilities opened up during the pandemic[2].

1. https://www.vice.com/en/article/884xyp/gig-workers-have-nowh...

2. https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/article/San-Franc...

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