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Arm China Has Gone Rogue

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411–420 of 686 posts

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#411

I’m not saying this development is good, but didn’t ARM UK / SoftBank lose control of ARM China 3 years ago when they sold 51% of it and became a minority shareholder? Not being in control comes along with the minority shareholder status. The fact that ARM China CEO refused to step down is kind of irrelevant, the remaining 51% shareholders could just replace the board with whomever and install whomever they want as C…

The entire board voted with SoftBank to kick this dude out. He literally refuses to step down. There would have to be a lengthy court battle which the board doesn't want.

But the Chinese ownership could replace the board, right?

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#412
post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

The US is waking up from a post-cold war reality. In the 1980s a consensus formed that.

1. US military and economic power meant that countries could be relied on to follow US influenced IP laws or be excluded from the global market.

2. US military and economic power was large enough and benign enough that no major trading partner would pose an existential military or political threat - validated by the economic rise of Germany and Japan.

These two ideas powered US and to a lesser extent European outsourcing for the next 40 years. Very few executives believed that there was a serious risk of their outsourced manufacturing or outsourced engineering firm becoming independent - and they certainly didn't think through the reality that in such an event the holding firm would not have the capital or knowledge to compete against the newly formed firm.

The reality is that the US and Chinese economic spheres are likely to fracture in whole or in part. China owns the factories and the IP, the Chinese military is increasingly capable of achieving any military goal they are likely to have against the US military using indigenous military hardware.

There is no reason the Chinese authorities would not support subsidiaries and joint ventures becoming independent by eliminating legally ambiguous joint ventures and Variable Interest Entities, forcing sales of Chinese assets to Chinese investors, or simply creating new legislation to free such entities from foreign corporations.

I fear that the US has been so focused on outsourcing for the last 40 years that it's forgotten how unusual of a relationship outsourcing was in the first place, and why it wasn't done for most of the industrial era.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#413

We could just give up on the idea of "intellectual property", and go all out in an innovation race.

In case you aren't aware, the reason we have intellectual property is because we have 300 years of human history showing that countries without intellectual property never innovate anything. The countries of the world adopted intellectual property rights, even though the nobility of Europe resisted for over a century, because they were forced to just to keep up with Britain.

We also have 300 years of history showing what happens to countries who adopt policies that China do (it used to be called Mercantilism). It has always been an excellent system for copying superior countries and catching up with them. It is also an excellent system for launching economic (and real) warfare against your enemies, but in the end it always leads to stagnation (which in turn leads to these kind of countries using their state power for the only thing it is really good for - war).

History shows that this will be the path China takes. We can only hope China begins to suffer from the stagnation part before they destroy the world.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#414

China has been doing this for, what, 30-40 years now? How is this news? It is astonishing to me how many people have been, apparently, sleeping under a rock for decades, and are just now announcing their bitter realizations that China is not a free market open to Western companies. Hillary Clinton did one of these announcements within the past year or so, and my eyes rolled right out of the back of my head.

So China invented paper, printing and gunpowder. That’s pretty significant IP theft… no one talks about it.

Yeah, that would be a few millenia patent. Its really a false equivalency..

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#415
post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

"My main issue is with the West being completely oblivious to it."

We are not oblivious.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#417

This is difficult to parse in my Western mind. I've grown up with a constant understanding of implicit liberties, so much so that I have the freedom to openly _discuss_ my general distrust of the government. The events that float by in HN are outliers: threats of more risk, but statistically unusual enough that they're stories of interest. This means that living and acting in a country where your very _thoughts_ are…

Remember that nobody was threatened or, as a result, morally offended by China until the last few years when we figured out we couldn't keep them at the bottom of the value chain forever. How do we live in a society where we can just be aimed at a new foreign enemy and all of our free, enlightened citizens go along every time? Russia (support afghanistan), Iran (support Iraq), Iraq (support gulf emirates), Al Qaeda,…

> Remember that nobody was threatened or, as a result, morally offended by China until the last few years when we figured out we couldn't keep them at the bottom of the value chain forever.

No. Not really. Just stating things doesn't make them true.

You should ask China's neighbors (esp. India) whether they felt threatened before.

Also read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_warrior_diplomacy

Why do you think emperor for life Xi Jinping is going to be more fair than his more "democratic" predecessors?

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#418

China has been doing this for, what, 30-40 years now? How is this news? It is astonishing to me how many people have been, apparently, sleeping under a rock for decades, and are just now announcing their bitter realizations that China is not a free market open to Western companies. Hillary Clinton did one of these announcements within the past year or so, and my eyes rolled right out of the back of my head.

So China invented paper, printing and gunpowder. That’s pretty significant IP theft… no one talks about it.

No one talks about it? China inventing paper, printing and gunpowder is something every school child knows. I think I've heard about it about a million times. These facts are common knowledge; certainly paper and gunpowder.

Printing is an odd example; the reason Gutenberg was influential is not the reason most people think. He did not invent movable type. He invented systems for mass producing movable type, particularly technology for casting type blocks out of metal, instead of carving them out of wood. So yes, movable type was invented in China. But no, Gutenberg's contribution was not "stealing from the Chinese" (as has become popular to claim on the internet these days...) The root of this particular misconception is the general public's general ignorance of printing technology.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So China invented paper, printing and gunpowder. That’s pretty significant IP theft… no one talks about it.

Yeah, that would be a few millenia patent. Its really a false equivalency..

I know. Let’s excuse the rules when it doesn’t convenience us.

How about using drug addiction to force trade… then complaining that party doesn’t follow the trade rules?

I love how we talk about how “China doesn’t follow the rules”… and completely ignore the context of how they were dragged into the game unwillingly

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire board voted with SoftBank to kick this dude out. He literally refuses to step down. There would have to be a lengthy court battle which the board doesn't want.

But the Chinese ownership could replace the board, right?

ARM HQ and Chinese fund Hopu tried jointly to replace the CEO of ARM China who is refusing to step down. The ARM China board voted 7-1 to fire him but he controls the company seal.
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